Gérard TAILLE wrote:
As I said before I cannot access to this link [19] so I cannot access to your defintion of a move value.
My references to text sources point to the message in
thread = Book References in Other Threads
author = RobertJasiek
date = Jul 21, 2013
In that message, you find the reference [19]. You can find the message using the forum's Search function.
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the move value cannot not be defined by a calculation
The move value is a value. Since it is a value, it is determined by a calculation. Since there are several types of move values having different kinds of calculations, my definition contains both a) the algebraic conditions for determining the correct type and b) the algebraic calculation.
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what is the move value defintion for which you build your calculation?
I have given you the hints for this.
For short sequences: all you need is to replace the parameter ? by suitable relations <, <=, >, >=, =. If you can't figure it out, study the sources!
Example type local gote:
local gote :<=> m_gote < m_B_sente, m_W_sente.
If this pair of conditions is fulfilled, then move value M := m_gote.
For long sequences: method of making a hypothesis.
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For miai value
Miai value is an alternative phrase for the term move value of modern endgame theory, which calibrates a move value as a value per move, whereas deire value of traditional endgame theory calibrates a move value of a) sente as a value per move, b) gote as a value per two moves and c) does not know well how to handle ko move values.
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I already mentionned the following attempt of definition:
[i]A local position can be given a count. This represents what the final score of the position will be on average.
What average? In one local sente, you do not form an average. Conway formed averages (mean values) by forming the limit to infinity in playing correctly in arbitrarily multiple copies together. Which average do you mean?
Mean value is a CGT term, which I do not use in my definitions of count and move value. I just need tentative counts and move values to define counts and move values.
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the difference between the two counts represents by how much the play increased the final score in the local position.
No. This difference is the gain or the negated gain. The score of the / a final position remains the same. What is different is the COUNT before the move and the COUNT after the move.
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This is the essence of what the miai value is – how much a move gains on average.
No. This is the move's gain.
The miai value is the modern move value.
The miai value has an average, for which you can say that it is how much a move gains on average: the limit for arbitrarily many copies of the local endgames played together correctly.
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1) the need of the player is not clear
What is "the need of the player" conceptually? Strategic advice for him? If so, indeed, the move value alone is insufficient information for strategic advice, in general.
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2) the defintion is quite ambiguous because we don't know what exactly means "on average".
You don't. Conway does, see above and [20] in
https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.p ... 45#p143245Quote:
BTW where do you put the miai value in your approach where you use move value and gains. Is it a third concept?
Miai value is (the Japanese name of modern) move value. Do you mean 'mean value'? My approach to defining move value is so elegant that I do not need mean value.
BTW, thermography is also elegant when it writes things like L_t(G) = l_t(G), that is, the Left score is the (value of the) Left wall (at temperature t of the game G).