(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
DT[2020-07-05]
PC[OGS: https://online-go.com/game/25208368]
GN[European Pro League]
PB[AndyKravec]
PW[Welvang]
BR[?]
WR[5d]
TM[600]OT[3x30 byo-yomi]
RE[W+R]
SZ[19]
KM[6.5]
RU[Japanese]
C[roln90: \[object Object\]
]
;B[pd]
(;W[dp]
(;B[pp]
(;W[dc]
(;B[ce]
(;W[ed]
(;B[ch]
(;W[nc]
(;B[qf]
(;W[qq]
(;B[pq]
(;W[qp]
(;B[qn]
(;W[qo]
(;B[po]
(;W[rn]
(;B[qr]
(;W[rr]
(;B[ro]
(;W[pr]
(;B[rq]
(;W[qs]
(;B[rp]
(;W[qr]
(;B[rm]
(;W[pn]
(;B[qm]
(;W[nq]
(;B[nn]
(;W[ne]
(;B[kd]
(;W[ic]
(;B[md]
(;W[nd]
(;B[ie]
(;W[qc]
(;B[pc]
(;W[qd]
(;B[pe]
(;W[pb]
(;B[ob]
(;W[qb]
(;B[nb]
(;W[mc]
(;B[lc]
(;W[mb]
(;B[oc]
(;W[re]
(;B[lb]
(;W[la]
(;B[ka]
(;W[ma]
(;B[jb]
(;W[le]
C[jillgoodgal: white groups working against each other?
]
(;B[ld]
(;W[ng]
(;B[ph]
(;W[ni]
C[slayertermx: are these guys really good?
]
(;B[pj]
C[Mrrr: it depends on what good means too you
jillgoodgal: Andrii has been competitive in the league
jillgoodgal: and Tanguy has had several really good games that just fell apart on him late, or he timed out
slayertermx: new player, what do they think about every move?
Mrrr: he timed out a very good game with Andy last season
hexahedron: These are some of the strongest european players - they probably can't stand up to the top asian players, but top european player is still really really strong compared to most everyone else
jillgoodgal: right now it seems Ryan Li from AGA is the strongest in this league this season, but he still has to play Ilya
💖 KoBa 💖: current standings on https://eurogofed.org/pros/league.html
slayertermx: why is he taking so long
]
(;W[ib]
C[jillgoodgal: he wants to determine his strategy
hexahedron: @slayertermx - if you're interested in some live commentary (which might be over your head if you're new, but maybe still give you an idea of what people are thinking about): https://www.twitch.tv/europeangofederation
slayertermx: woah, there's a twitch stream for this?
]
(;B[lf]
C[Ferran: And, at some point, you can check last season and also last year's transatlantic (US+CDN vs EU)
hexahedron: Yeah. You need to have a decent amount of experience already for the commentary to be accessible though, so if you're like in the "I barely just learned this game" phase, then it will be very hard to understand/follow
]
(;W[lg]
C[slayertermx: i play chess tho
]
(;B[kf]
C[jillgoodgal: the pieces have the same colors
slayertermx: but yeah, i dont understand anything
]
(;W[ki]
C[slayertermx: all i see is pieces being placed, i dont understand positioning
]
(;B[mf]
C[jillgoodgal: you can see they are making shapes
]
(;W[nf]
C[jillgoodgal: and then cutting the opponent shapes
]
(;B[ii]
C[slayertermx: like circles, or squares?
]
(;W[kk]
C[getallstones: does ogs also transmit one color parties?
]
(;B[ik]
C[jillgoodgal: like what white is doing
jillgoodgal: and black is blocking
]
(;W[cn]
(;B[mj]
C[Ferran: @slayer: there are some distributions of stones with some... properties. Those are called shapes.
]
(;W[mi]
(;B[lj]
C[Ferran: Some are good, some are bad, some depend on the situation
slayertermx: ah i see, the goal of this game is to create shapes
]
(;W[kj]
C[jillgoodgal: to create two eyes
jillgoodgal: and surround opponent stones before they can create two eyes
]
(;B[gc]
C[slayertermx: so if you create two eyes, you basically win
Ferran: @slayer: No. Shapes help you reach your goal
jillgoodgal: if you create two eyes, that group lives
Ferran: The goal is to have more solid territory than your opponent
]
(;W[ok]
(;B[ll]
C[slayertermx: makes sense
Ferran: If you create 2 eyes, that group can't be killed, so that territory is solid. If there's no option to gouge your eyes \[2, 20, 200\], that group is also solid
]
(;W[mm]
(;B[ml]
C[Ferran: For example, from the previus season of this competition and also with Andy... https://online-go.com/game/23630941
]
(;W[nm]
(;B[nl]
C[Ferran: You can see the territory
jillgoodgal: this white group in the middle is in trouble
]
(;W[ol]
(;B[om]
(;W[mn]
C[slayertermx: why cant they fight inside their territory
]
(;B[on]
C[jillgoodgal: no one has territory yet
Ferran: I think he means my explanation above
]
(;W[oj]
C[slayertermx: talking about that game 23630941
jillgoodgal: there is no room to make two eyes inside
Ferran: You can fight inside, but it's useless
]
(;B[kl]
(;W[qj]
C[jillgoodgal: so unless you can kill one side of a territory, there is no point, you just give your opponent prisoners
]
(;B[qi]
C[slayertermx: ah okay
]
(;W[qk]
(;B[mg]
C[jillgoodgal: just some of the stones around the corners on the right are pretty solid territory
Ferran: The counting method varies, but, basically, every prisoner is an extra point 
]
(;W[oh]
C[slayertermx: why cant i watch that game from the very start
]
(;B[ri]
(;W[rj]
C[getallstones: you can
Ferran: Try the arrows below the board
]
(;B[li]
C[Chad Thunderredacted: now its a capturing race?
]
(;W[rg]
(;B[rf]
C[martin3141: yes
jillgoodgal: now black looks in trouble
]
(;W[sf]
(;B[qg]
C[Chad Thunderredacted: yeah i think black has fewer liberties
martin3141: could be a seki
]
(;W[rh]
C[martin3141: there's lots of shared liberties
NeoVim: Show seki variation please
]
(;B[si]
(;W[sg]
C[martin3141: I don't know, I'm just throwing out my guess
]
(;B[mh]
C[Mrrr: there is so many shared liberties 
Mrrr: it must be seki
]
(;W[pk]
C[jillgoodgal: Ilya thinks white can kill
]
(;B[pi]
(;W[oi]
C[Chad Thunderredacted: when this is done is g16 next?
]
(;B[sj]
(;W[sk]
(;B[sl]
(;W[rk]
C[martin3141: well if a group dies, the game is probably decided
]
(;B[oa]
C[Chad Thunderredacted: but if its seki
]
(;W[qe]
C[jillgoodgal: white has the advantage of that live corner
getallstones: I saw already a game with a bigger group dying and this color won in the end
]
(;B[pf]
(;W[qh]
C[Kimbo: Yeah white will kill
]
(;B[pg]
C[martin3141: yeah getallstones, but neither player seems to have a strong advantage on the rest of the board
]
(;W[pa]
(;B[lq]
C[jillgoodgal: black realizes, must have had time to count
]
(;W[mr]
(;B[lr]
(;W[sq]
(;B[fq]
C[martin3141: oh, white will fill t12 last, so no approach move at t15 is necessary
martin3141: so black is dead
]
(;W[go]
(;B[fo]
C[Kimbo: Yeah
]
(;W[fn]
(;B[eo]
(;W[en]
C[Chad Thunderredacted: i dont understand g5
Chad Thunderredacted: he really wants influence on the outside?
]
(;B[do]
(;W[co]
C[Chad Thunderredacted: or to not let black build moyo?
]
(;B[dq]
(;W[cp]
(;B[dn]
(;W[dm]
(;B[ep]
(;W[cq]
(;B[em]
(;W[el]
(;B[fm]
(;W[gn]
(;B[fl]
(;W[hq]
C[NeoVim: Will white live in to left?
]
(;B[dr]
C[Kimbo: White wants to kill again
]
(;W[gp]
(;B[cr]
(;W[br]
(;B[bs]
(;W[bq]
(;B[cm]
(;W[dl]
(;B[bm]
C[Kimbo: Not necessarily the bottom left but the 2 black stones in mid bottom
]
(;W[bk]
(;B[bn]
(;W[bo]
(;B[ap]
(;W[ao]
(;B[ck]
(;W[cl]
(;B[bl]
(;W[cj]
(;B[bj]
(;W[dk]
(;B[ak]
C[NeoVim: Ko?
jillgoodgal: just fill in, I think
]
(;W[ck]
C[martin3141: I believe whites chances are very good
]
(;B[rb]
C[Kimbo: Yeah black is desperate 
]
(;W[rc]
C[Welvang: thx
💖 KoBa 💖: gg!
jillgoodgal: on to game 3!
]
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