(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]
PW[alphago]PB[alphago]C[liu xing 7p
lian xiao 9p
fan hui 2p

"The most fiery fight, a solid defence with the advantage"

Liu: Lian is the new holder of the two biggest titles in China: mingren and tianyuan

Xiao played in the special pair go match with alphago against Gu Li at Wuzhen.

At the start you were quite far behind, and most of the game you were trying to catch up. But at the end, Gu Li, made a mistake in the fighting

Fan: he should have simply made an extra exchange, but he didn't

Liu: and you relied on this tiny mistake to reverse the game

Lian: at the start, I wanted to understand how it thought, but perhaps in reality I ended up still trying to play my own ideas, "dragging" it towards my thinking

I made a mistake in the opening fight, I thought that when I haned, I could atari and descend

and I immediately saw that if they block and don't descend, it's clearly wrong.

But then they clamped and dragged me back, and I had thought it was related to the other bit.

After the clamp, I thought the game was already beyond me, I lost too much.

Fan: but it was very interesting how you still played proper moves, defending the corners, and the game was still contestable

Liu: it seemed the gap was not as big as it seemed

Lian: was it Gu's invasion that lost a lot?

Fan: that was ok, but if it played, it would have dropped from the 5th line, that wasn't B's losing reason.

I think it is more that you were always playing tightly and looking for opportunities as you felt behind, but they played a little slack, whether from attitude or skill.

My students often say that getting behind in the opening is a good strategy, as when you are ahead you often play slowly and saftely whereas when you are behind you play tightly.

Liu: Coming back to this game, I think our previous games were very interesting and brilliant, but some of our viewers might still not be satisfied

Fan: They want more excitement

Liu: Though all our games have had some intense fighting, but it's still not beyond comprehension/imagination

and today we invited Lian Xiao, who is known for his fighting strength.

Fan: today's game, it would be hard to find a game more complicated than this. The fighting is very messy, from start to end. All sorts of exchanges, often in places you can't imagine.

Liu: I think our viewers now eagerly await this game]
;B[qd]
;W[dp]
;B[pq]
;W[dd]
;B[fc]
;W[cf]
;B[kc]C[mini-chinese

Fan: it plays all sorts of openings, it doesn't think any opening is particularly better

Liu: so in the opening, it thinks we have a lot of good options]
;W[qo]
(;B[pl]C[but here it changes it's strategy

Liu: we almost were wondering if pincer can't be played anymore

Fan: actually it thinks they are all very close, sometimes it does pincer, and perhaps it is to do with the surroundings.]
;W[oc]C[Lian: hard to think of, given that B already has a 3 space pincer waiting]
(;B[pf]C[it plays this card again

Liu: we would normally think B should attack when B is already pincered


...

Liu: Chen yao ye did do some analysis after the master games and did conclude that this may be better than Q17]
;W[op]
;B[oq]
;W[np]
(;B[mr]C[Fan: we were never taught this when we were younger

...
...

Fan: and after the knight's move, it seems W doesn't have a good follow up

Liu: there is no way to lean on B to build strength

wherever W plays it seems B can tenuki]
(;W[rl]C[B plays on the second, so W does too

Liu: this is a unique shape feeling


...

Fan: I think alphago plays here somewhat because of Q14, to decrease the efficiency.]
(;B[on]C[so that is why B plays differently]
(;W[qj]C[liu: so W isn't afraid of the cut

fan: the alphago games are generally you take yours, I'll take mine, not directly responding]
;B[pp]
;W[po]
;B[oo]C[fan: and after the cut W isn't just about to sacrifice these two either]
(;W[lq]C[continuing to harass B over these stones

Lian: it is hard for us to think of this move]
(;B[nk]C[a move to look pretty

B is aiming to attack the 3 lower stones on a large scale if W doesn't respond

liu: W is a bit thin on both sides]
;W[mq]
;B[lr]
;W[kq]C[liu: it seems W got a lot spending two moves here, very thick]
(;B[rk]
(;W[pm]C[...

Liu: this seems like a tesuji]
(;B[om]
(;W[qk]
;B[rm]
;W[ql]
;B[pn]
;W[rn]
;B[qm]
;W[sm]C[Liu: so W connected up, but B capturing a stone is quite thick]
;B[rp]C[Fan: and now B gets this 2nd line jump, not only taking lots of points but also threatening W's eyespace

Lian: but I feel that in this variation W is not bad, as it think B's profit is limited

Liu: as W got to play on both sides

Fan: alphago still thinks it is even. In the opening with so few moves played, it is very rare that it will think one side is ahead.]
;W[qg]
;B[qf]
;W[rg]
;B[pg]
(;W[lm]C[...

fan: well often when both sides have thick walls, alphago will play these sorts of moves in the centre, emphasising the reduction and expansion of this thickness.]
;B[mc]C[lian: truly B has to one space now, B can't kick - B is already so solid

liu: and S14 is sente]
;W[jd]C[W reduces]
;B[kd]
;W[jf]C[fan: normally we would think this is the end of the opening and the middlegame fighting will start here, but this game it is only the start of the opening.

It's still early]
;B[qh]
;W[rh]
;B[ph]
;W[ri]C[liu: this sequence is pretty comfortable for B, and S14 and even S15 are sente]
(;B[lk]C[liu: this seems like a vital point

...

so this is more urgent and global

Fan: and it is also very sensitive to strength and weakness, so it is still trying to impact the L3 group]
;W[ke]
;B[ie]
;W[je]
;B[ib]
;W[hc]C[still pressing

lian: we would normally stop thinking locally and tenuki, but it generally likes to keep pressing low

it's like the 3rd game with Ke Jie

Fan: it seems B can't continue responding

Lian, Liu: oh no]
(;B[ge]
;W[kr]C[fan: just while fighting, tenuki to here

and B didn't directly attack W either]
;B[dg]C[liu: this is attacking by slowly building strength]
;W[cg]
;B[dh]
(;W[mj]
;B[mk]
;W[md]C[also trying to pressure B

liu: telling B you can't just treat all these stones as thickness, they also have some weaknesses]
(;B[nd]
;W[ld]
;B[lc]
;W[nc]
;B[ne]
;W[mf]C[fan: W's found a shape

liu: it looks like W has found the key threads of a plan

fan: it seems like with the aji, P17 isn't completely dead anymore]
;B[ic]
;W[id]
;B[hd]C[fan: did W press now?

liu: no, not yet
...

liu: so there is aji in the corner and there is 

...

B isn't very thick

but if W doesn't have a follow up, W also might end up just giving up lots of points on the top

Fan: it loses quite a lot of points as well]
(;W[ec]C[the first use is kick

if B descends, it thinks W has already profited]
;B[eb]C[liu: to take sente?

W's next move is particularly shocking, it doesn't want to submit here, so it ...]
(;W[gf]C[liu: it has a big impact on you when you see it at least.

fan: and the shape seems alright

liu: it seems to be trying to lean on B's liberty shortage

fan: it probably has something to do with that

liu: can B easily respond to this?]
(;B[dq]C[fan: so alphago continues with its indirect strategy

lian: er ...
liu: er ...

fan: its method of indirectness is also very special isn't it?

directly here

like W's move was just a big shock, so B plays a shocking move in return.

...

Liu: but B's sente is best played here?]
;W[eq]
;B[cq]
;W[er]
;B[cp]
;W[do]
;B[bn]C[B gets the corner

lian: so it's time for W to move on the top

fan: W plays very simply, nothing complicated]
;W[db]C[liu: this move is truly very big, even if B doesn't C17, B can D18

this is crudely, over 20 points]
;B[de]C[fan: but perhaps B was hoping for W to block, and then B can aim at this aji

lian: I can't quite understand, what if W just blocks?

...

fan: so in the game W chooses a "trial of strength" sort of move]
(;W[fb]C[liu: top players who all know the purpose of their opponent's moves all won't easily let their opponent get what they want]
;B[ed]C[fan: it seems like there are a lot of opportunities for atari in this position, double ataris everywhere]
;W[ea]
(;B[gc]C[liu: this move, B has to come back to capture

]
(;W[ee]C[constant exchanges]
;B[df]
;W[fd]C[liu: this exchange is totally unexpected

even after you show it, I can't think how it got here

at what point did W get the G14 move?
when did B tenuki to D3?

very interesting

Fan: many games you can pull apart and work out the variation that takes you there, but it's very difficult in alphago self-play

Liu: it's just there are so many different threads, plans switch so quickly. The previous second I could be attacking, the next I could be defending.]
;B[hf]C[still here]
;W[qb]C[can this live?

lian: I think so 
liu: I don't think so]
(;B[hg]C[fan: it chooses a clear variation

liu: this move looks a bit slow/dumb, but if we see J14 as W sente, we see it is a very important move]
;W[nf]
;B[pd]
;W[rc]C[Fan: it seems like not only does W live, but the R14 group isn't totally safe

Liu: if W plays P11 it like B will all die]
;B[oi]
;W[jc]
;B[jb]
;W[mb]
;B[lb]
;W[la]
;B[kb]
;W[ih]C[liu: this forms a very interesting exchange]
;B[ce]
;W[dm]C[fan: can two sirs make a judgement of the position please

liu: or to evaluate and analyse the exchanges at the top.

lian: W lived in the corner, and B gained C15 and H13

liu: and what about strength and weakness?

lian: B should be thicker after P11 connects up, and and still has sentes around S15

liu: it seems neither side has much territory

lian: W's area is fuzzy

Fan: if forced to count, how much does each side have?

lian: my positional judgement is extremely bad

liu: that's not necessarily a bad thing

fan: it means you always play tightly

lian: if ever I think I am ahead, after two moves, it changes

unless it is particularly clear, then I can count it, but if there are any variations, I can't

I don't dare to.

And online, I never count points.

Fan: really, never!?

Lian: I never know who is winning

sometimes, I push and cut, and then when I review it I find before that I was ahead by 20 points!

Liu: very interesting.

Fan: if we can't get a positional evaluation, where do you think the direction of play, the strategies for each side are coming up now?

Lian: Then B should attack the centre W group and naturally enter the W lower area, or directly enter.

Fan: and W's plan is the opposite

Liu: we counted the 3 white territories top left, top right, right as 18 points

and B counting 10 on the lower right, 7 lower left, has about 24 points adding the top and right centre

if B spends a move on the left, there are a lot of points, but if W spends a move to C11, there aren't many B points either.

so perhaps W only needs 10 points from the lower structure

Fan: but there is also B's left. Perhaps if B can attack the centre group in centre, and reduce the lower area relatively well, perhaps B can be happy taking C8.

Liu: after C8, B seems to get an extra 20 points

Lian: or B can get points capturing a few stones in W's thinness, such as J13, though probably W won't give that up right now.

Fan: we said before that this game is very complicated. Up to here, I would say the opening has ended, and the middlegame finally starts. ]
;B[cc]C[first B harrasses the corner a bit]
;W[gb]
;B[hb]
;W[gd]C[aiming to first profit against B a little]
;B[hc]C[liu: painful to connect

these two stones are just, 2 points in sente, but it seems to have something to with W's liberty shortage in the F14 area, it isn't so easy for W to get out now.

lian: but still I think human players wouldn't possibly atari, and if atari, wouldn't possibly connect

liu: true]
;W[cd]
;B[bd]
;W[bc]
;B[bb]
;W[cb]C[fan: B can't continue as that is gote

liu: though it is very big

]
(;B[lh]C[liu: xiao said earlier B would like to capture a few stones here

...

so this is still a critical area of strength and weakness]
;W[ki]C[Fan: W doesn't retreat or just defend]
;B[lf]C[fan: it seems like B has already captured a little]
;W[ik]C[liu: W doesn't get tangled up locally.

I want to ask fan sensei again about the positional evaluation. Though every game we ask and the answer is always "close", "still close", "you guessed right, very close", but I still want to ask

Fan: then I'll give you some ?morale? (not sure what the word was, let alone translation)

at this point, both sides think W is slightly ahead

Liu: so in some exchange or variation, one side thought W gained a little

Fan: I think it should be in the fight at the top, but the gap is still very small

Liu: so if both strong players continue from here, is it a 0.5 or 1.5 sort of difference?

Fan: yes

Lian: but doesn't W think it's chances are higher at the start of the game?

Fan: yes so now it thinks it's chances are even higher

Lian: so it is a big advantage?

Fan: er... well ... the concept of advantage is hard to quantize.

like me, I don't play so regularly these days, and sometimes I think I am far ahead, but after 2 moves, and counting points, I am behind.

Whether a position is good or bad is particularly hard to quantize

W just thinks that in this position its winning chances are higher, but that doesn't mean it will definitely win.

Liu: so that is, perhaps this is slightly better for W, but it can't relax an iota.

Fan: I'm sure lots of viewers will have had these sorts of experiences - in a game with a big lead, due to fear of losing the advantage, may play slow moves, so this game is regrettably lost. We can get very upset.

So essentially, where we must play tight, we should, even if we are in the lead.

Liu: when we are in the lead, our mentality changes. We worry about personal loss and gain.

and when we are behind, saying it crudely, we "smash a pot to pieces just because it's cracked"

(po guan po shuai)

and "the shoeless don't fear the shoed"

(guang jiao bu pa chuan xie)

we just play freely, treating the game as already lost.

but when we have the advantage there really is this psychological problem.

Fan: and in our culture, it does mention in many proverbs this sort of strategy & tactics

the most famous is (chen re da tie) strike while the iron is hot.

like, while the iron is hot, take the opportunity to hit it a few times more. while you are ahead, that is the best time to play tight.

or there is (chengshengzhuiji)
pursue a retreating enemy.

they have some logic

B right now needs to find some opportunity, some more violent fighting]
(;B[fl]C[liu: so this game is truly not so good for B

...
so B needs an opportunity to attack to catch up

fan: and it seems it is quite messy, if B gets to enter this area, it doesn't seem like any of W's stone are alive, either the left or the right. It all becomes unclear.

Liu: The fighting has only just started]
;W[hm]
(;B[fp]
(;W[fm]C[fighting back]
;B[jl]C[fan: perhaps B is trying to find the key threads, and doesn't immediately cut

liu: this gives W a headache - there is a cut at E4, various wedges at E7/G7 and now a cut. This is a real test of W's ability to defend.]
(;W[ep]C[fan: I didn't investigate that variation, but perhaps it connects here as B7 is very big

liu: without E4, W can't connect B7

...

liu: so while W defends at a place where we can't see B being able to cut, it does have sente aji.]
;B[cl]C[Fan: so B still plays knights move up]
(;W[dl]C[liu: still trying to press

...

...

so W defends by attacking, letting B in - you break my area, I break yours.

]
;B[jn]C[now B tenukis

Liu: but didn't we say E4 was sente, but W continues pushing at D8, I really want to defend the territory]
;W[ck]
;B[jp]C[Fan: "canghaisangtian"
(the sea turned to mulberry fields, i.e. great changes have happened)

Liu: we thought W might get 30 points here, but now even with another move, it isn't 10 points, but W got two moves on the left, also very valuable]
(;W[jk]
;B[iq]C[Fan: a total mess of fighting

Liu: for W now it seems totally uncertain about this group, cut off inside, and it not immediately clear how to live reasonably]
;W[kl]
;B[ln]
;W[ir]
;B[hr]
;W[nr]C[fan: it seems like W doesn't have a lot of trouble to live]
;B[nq]
;W[mn]C[liu: before living, W still wants to profit

fan: cutting B off]
;B[lo]
;W[or]C[lian: the order of moves seems very methodical]
;B[pr]
;W[mo]
(;B[km]
;W[ls]C[...

Liu: so B taking the two stones is an overplay]
;B[os]
;W[ms]
(;B[il]C[fan: now B pushes ...

lian: B has to push here

fan: B doesn't want W to connect in one move, and W doesn't want B to profit here either]
;W[kk]C[lian: fighting spirit

...

fan: so both sides have a split shape again

Liu: W's shape is really quite badly split]
;B[hl]
;W[ll]C[fan: W connects this stone and the top right B group is also surrounded

liu: too complicated!

I can't predict at the end which groups will alive. Every group on the board might end up dead

fan: let's help you forecast]
;B[mm]C[fan: B still won't let W off

W's 3 groups all aren't cleanly alive, and B's ... Well, this B group is probably cleanly alive.

lian: after B K2, W is already dead

liu: can you kill it xiao?

lian: yeah, should be

...

liu: not killable
lian: B still has to indirectly attack

fan: it's not alive, but to kill it is very difficult]
(;W[ok]C[liu: dazzling (yan hua liao luan)

fan: very dizzying

liu: very dizzying]
;B[ml]C[liu: B's shape is a bit ...]
;W[mh]C[fan: that's why once W attaches, this B group is unclear again

liu: just looking at how best for B to connect up is already hard to see clearly

fan: it's such a headache

lian: the first instinct is to turn O10

fan: I don't know how many cups of coffee I drank looking at this game!]
(;B[lg]
;W[le]C[liu: both sides have a lot of cutting points]
;B[mg]
;W[mi]
;B[nh]C[liu: right now, it looks like B's shape is alright

lian: it seems to be connected]
(;W[gi]C[fan: W moves the fighting focus

liu: this also seems to be aiming at the weaknesses of the B groups

fan: before, these B stones had seemed so solid, but now they dont' seem to be alive.]
;B[hk]
;W[hj]
;B[fj]C[fan: the number of not alive groups is too much!

liu: W's E2 group is not alive, and the problem is that there are 2 groups, if W lives with L2, it will hurt the other group and vice versa.

the centre W group also at least hasn't clearly made life

fan: at the H13 group too, and the D12 group too

everytime I replay this game up to here, I feel so dizzy]
;W[ng]
;B[me]
;W[kh]C[liu: W spends a move to become totally solid, but now

doesn't B owe a move here?]
(;B[bl]C[very big as if W got B7 there are problems in the corner]
;W[io]C[liu: it's time for W to settle this group]
;B[gq]
;W[hp]
;B[lp]C[defending the cut]
;W[mp]
;B[hq]
;W[fi]
;B[dj]
;W[fo]C[liu: some clarity is starting to appear

lian: everything seems alive now

fan: but though W lived everywhere, W's territory ... there isn't anything left. If B gets D9, B's aim is satisfied, destroying W's territory in sente and the left is so big.

liu: just the left side is enough to make up for all W's points, but B still has weaknesses]
(;B[nb]C[fan: so this becomes the critical point

liu: B is hoping W responds]
(;W[na]C[fan: so W must fight. The point is not to save the one stone, but to kill the b group

liu: so B is hoping to use the ko to cut at D9, and W is hoping for B to take gote to connect the group back so W can take D9

fan: it seems that B never had the opportunity to exchange this atari for P18, if B ataried earlier at any time, W would have tenukied, this is always gote]
;B[ma]
;W[ni]
;B[oh]
;W[mb]
;B[gj]C[fan: this ko is very weird, as neither side can end the ko, as W must end the ko with F14 not with P18 and for B

liu: B is only willing to end to ko if W spends a move at F14

fan: this shape is very awkward]
;W[hi]
;B[ma]
;W[cn]
(;B[co]
;W[mb]
;B[dk]C[fan: B "gu zhu yi zhi", stakes everything on this throw

liu: B stops pretending (that the fight is elsewhere)]
;W[ff]C[fan: both show their true face

liu: entering a stage that agitates the heart

fan: the ko was originally 20 points, now it turns into over 100 points

lian: playing this sort of game, your head normally explodes before this

fan: then add a byo-yomi countdown

liu: just counting points, it's already too much, counting what if I sacrifice this or that

fan: and then you have to calculate L&D, can you kill E2 with two moves, and then if so, how is the best way?

liu: let's just enjoy and watch it]
;B[ma]
;W[qn]
(;B[kj]C[fan: this wedge is important, B needs ko threats, later this will not be a ko threat]
;W[jj]
;B[oj]
;W[mb]
;B[fg]C[liu: local threats]
;W[gg]
;B[ma]
;W[im]
;B[jm]
;W[mb]
;B[gh]
;W[fh]
;B[ma]
;W[ej]
;B[ek]
;W[mb]
;B[ob]C[fan: finally it extends

liu: actually B really doesn't want to play this threat, as it makes W's corner alive]
;W[pb]C[fan: up to here, as throughout the middlegame alphago thought W had a slight advantage

that is, throughout all this fighting, it was still within W's control

from B's L10 and P18, it's really about to play ko threats that lose points, each ko threat is so precious.]
;B[ma]
(;W[jo]
;B[kp]
;W[mb]
;B[ef]
;W[eg]
;B[ma]
;W[gk]C[liu: W's ko threats are very comfortable

B has to connect F9 or H8

Fan: H8 loses so many points

Liu: but if F9, then W gets G7 as a ko threat, and these 3 ko threats seem to be for free, and don't lose anything]
(;B[gl]C[Fan: in the real game B connects, at least if W wants the next ko threat, here the E2 group will suffer

this group is in a lot of danger

...

so B had no choice]
;W[mb]
;B[he]
;W[fe]
;B[ma]
;W[fk]
;B[el]
;W[mb]
;B[ji]C[B painfully plays this threat]
;W[lj]C[liu: a loss of 2 points]
;B[ma]
;W[ci]C[end the ko?

B has such a large group

liu: both sides have two things to do: to count, and read whether E2 is killable

fan: and in what sort of result you kill by

lian: for us, after such a long battle, it's just up to chance]
(;B[oa]C[(from if D11)

fan: this K13 gritting teeth is quite extreme

basically B thinks D11 is also not good enough

liu: this is all very complicated still, and enthusiastic viewers can analyse it themselves

fan: because (tian chang di jiu) it's everlasting like the universe

liu: and for us, when we go home, we will want to see how this ko goes

fan: just for fun

liu: it's very interesting]
;W[di]
;B[gp]
;W[cj]C[liu: G4 is to kill W

C10 is to get B to have to short W's liberties]
;B[go]
;W[in]
;B[gm]
;W[gn]
;B[cm]
;W[dn]
;B[ip]C[liu: B ataris here so W can't get both sides ]
;W[em]
;B[kn]
(;W[qp]C[liu: as we said earlier, W gets a seki in sente]
;B[qq]
;W[rr]
;B[rq]
;W[sr]
;B[so]
;W[pm]
;B[ro]
;W[pk]
;B[nj]
;W[sq]
;B[rs]C[liu: this shape, if B has sente, B lives with Q1

lian: and B gets one point

liu: under chinese rules]
(;W[jr]C[lian: isn't J1 better for points

fan: yes, it seems so, by 1 point, but this game is a bit different

liu: maybe it changes the corner variation. maybe it thinks W will win anyway]
;B[hn]
(;W[bk]C[...

lian: but this block is truly very big

fan: they both are scary

lian: this one looks more scary!

just crudely if B gets B9 and A9, it is like a reverse sente 10 points.

....

liu: but though W didn't manage to exchange P8 in sente, it doesn't matter]
;B[rf]
;W[ra]
;B[qm]
;W[al]
;B[bm]
(;W[rd]C[liu: oh, if W doesn't play here, there seems to be a problem]
;B[sg]
;W[sk]
;B[pa]
;W[re]
;B[se]
;W[sb]
;B[pc]C[gote 6 points

liu: oh no wait, this isn't gote 6 points, ... if you don't play here

lian: hehe, B is dead!

fan: hahaha!]
;W[am]C[liu: B has 3 moves here, A6, A5, B5, but all seem to leave some sort of problem]
(;B[bo]C[this is the proper move]
;W[br]
;B[cr]
;W[cs]
;B[ds]
;W[bs]
;B[dr]
;W[ss]
;B[qs]
;W[bq]C[liu: what is going on here?

fan: it's very confusing


...

liu: does B have any other moves?]
(;B[ar]
(;W[aq]
(;B[ap]
;W[an]
;B[bp]C[lian: W gains a point in sente compared to directly crawling A6

(and 3 compared to if B could have blocked at A6)

liu: and this one point is critical]
;W[ol]
;B[nm]C[it's funny that B could have connected Q7 first, and W pretends not to have seen it too]
;W[kg]
;B[of]
;W[li]
;B[og]
;W[ns]
;B[ps]
;W[hh]
;B[ig]
;W[jg]
;B[pm]
;W[rm]
;B[qe]
;W[hs]
;B[gs]
;W[is]
;B[ga]
;W[sd]
;B[sh]C[liu: truly B can fight this, as B is the one with ko threats now]
;W[si]
;B[sf]C[at the end B leads by 7 on the board, so W wins by 0.5

liu: so complicated the second half of the game, all the exchanges

lian: it's reading is incredible, from so early it can see things you can't possible think of

liu: even in the opening at the top fight, though it didn't play out a fighting variation, there was probably a lot of reading involved

lian: go depends on reading

fan: it's not just reading, but also judgement, as otherwise it won't hold up

liu: yes

fan: even after move 200, so much was unsettled, such an exciting game

it's like going to the cinema, so much suspense, until the end you don't know what will happen.


liu: after W got into an advantageous position at the top, it didn't play at all loose, resisting all the way through

lian: the push through with J8 is particularly memorable

...])
(;B[an]C[if B is really bold, B can block here]
;W[fs]
;B[gs]
;W[bp]
;B[ak]
;W[al]C[this is a very scary ko

liu: one step ko]
;B[ap]
;W[ao]C[lian: but W has good threats

liu: W never captured at H5 all this time. So it was for this ko!!

lian: but it's not a threat

fan: I think the P15 atari is enough to KO B]
;B[ij]C[lian: so B plays here]
;W[ii]C[no choice]
;B[ap]C[liu: W has to leave the P15 ko threat for now to use at the critical moment

hard to find a threat now]
;W[nm]C[liu: is this enough?

fan: the sequence on the left didn't lose terribly much right?

liu: yes, this should be enough

B really wants to fight back here, but truly, B has a purpose, but not the means

lian: B is just missing that little bit

fan: yes, it just missing that tiny bit.

liu: often it is that way]))
(;W[an]C[normally W could just crawl, but this is a difference of 1 point]
;B[ao]
;W[ak]
;B[aq]))
(;B[es]C[liu: such as here?

no, this clearly doesn't work]
;W[fs]
;B[fr]
;W[ao]C[this connects])
(;B[an]C[if block, B shorts its own liberties]
;W[fs]
;B[gs]
;W[ak]C[B dies]))
(;B[ao]
;W[ho]
;B[ko]
;W[bp]C[fan: already seki]
(;B[bq]
;W[bs])
(;B[bo]
;W[cr]
;B[dr]
;W[ds]
;B[br]
;W[bs]C[if W wins the ko it is a seki

fan: and this ko, this is a flower ko

liu: it is an extreme flower ko as

fan: if W ends the ko, it isn't seki, B is just dead]))
(;B[an]C[if here, as F1 is sente]
;W[cr]
;B[dr]
;W[ds]
;B[br]
;W[fs]
;B[hs]
;W[bo]
;B[ak]
;W[bq]))
(;W[]
;B[sg]
;W[sk]
;B[sb]C[W is dead

fan: so R7 was also very big - if W had to defend again

lian: yes, double sente]))
(;W[ol]C[W didn't even capture here in sente

liu: as S14 is sente on the corner, this is like 7 points in sente

but it thinks B9 is more stable?

fan: I think it's got something to do with K2, W is aiming at corner aji])
(;W[]
;B[bk]
;W[bj]
;B[ak]C[lian: as B can still get inside

fan: still messing about inside here!]
;W[]C[this still leaves a reverse sente 4 or 5 points

fan: W can't block?]
;B[aj]
;W[ai]C[liu: you mean B12

lian: A12 might be more severe]
;B[ah]
;W[bi]C[lian: oh, maybe it is ko.

liu: like this perhaps there is still some aji. Or rather very big aji]
;B[ch]
;W[be]
;B[bh]
;W[ei]
;B[ac]
;W[bf]
;B[af]C[liu: this ko is immense


so B9 was extremely big]
;W[ae]
;B[bg]))
(;W[]
;B[ps]
;W[ns]
;B[qr]
;W[sn])
(;W[ss]C[fan: if W ataris, B has no points. It's double sente 1 point

liu: but there is a risk


...

so regarding this atari, W needs to first judge the position, and whether W needs this atari

fan: but in this game W isn't scared of ko]
(;B[qs]C[like this, both sides have zero points])
(;B[ps]C[but B might connect, and this is a one step ko]
;W[qs]
;B[qr]))
(;W[jq]C[lian: isn't there the possibility of playing here!

oh no, I misread

liu: B can descend

lian: I was hoping H1 hane and connect is sente]))
(;W[hn]C[if W saves the vital stones]
;B[jr]C[B kills this group]))
(;B[di]C[lian: if connect?

fan: also very complicated]
;W[mb]
;B[ij]
;W[ii]
;B[ma]
;W[jq]C[lian: oh W still has this]
;B[ip]
;W[mb]
;B[jg]C[fan: if you grit your teeth, ou can still play here

liu: what! your teeth! careful you don't break them!

fan: but you can't just let the B group die!]
;W[kg]
;B[ma]C[lian: if B is willing to grit his teeth, so is W with B5 or something

Fan: yes the variation was something like that

liu: if B is willing to grit his teeth, maybe W can accept Q9 or R4

liu: so basically D11 is also possible for B to choice

lian: but after that B doesn't have a good ko threat

fan: as K13 just loses too much

lian: and the next ko threat (J14) is hard to play

fan: (jumps, holds his head and laughs), This! gritting your teeth! oh my!]
;W[bo]
;B[cm]
;W[mb]
;B[if]
;W[kf]
;B[ma]C[liu: isn't Q17 a ko threat already now?]
;W[pc]
;B[oa]
;W[pk]C[liu: B is all dead

fan: this K13 gritting teeth is quite extreme

basically B thinks D11 is also not good enough

liu: this is all very complicated still, and enthusiastic viewers can analyse it themselves

fan: because (tian chang di jiu) it's everlasting like the universe

liu: and for us, when we go home, we will want to see how this ko goes

fan: just for fun

liu: it's very interesting])
(;B[pc]C[from afterwards, it seems however B ends the ko, B doesn't have enough points.

this might be better locally, but it gives W an extra ko threat

lian: it places importance on this one KO ko threat

fan: because the fight on this side is still not finished yet]))
(;B[ei]C[B can't just capture]
;W[gl])
(;B[fk]C[fan: (to lian) you're still wondering about this]
;W[mb]
;B[en]C[lian: what about this?]
;W[oa]C[lian: oh, so W wins by ending the ko

fan: the vital thing is how B can kill this

liu: if B just wants to kill this group, it should be G4

fan: oh, if you just want to kill, you can

lian: that's for sure

...

liu: the reading here is so deep!

fan: there are so many traps, one encircling another

liu: shocking reading ability

fan: not loose at all]
(;B[gp]
;W[jq]C[fan: but the problem is that this is sente, and this L2 group is can live by ko, in sente

liu: so the key is who gets sente to play on the top left, at A17])
(;B[ip]C[Fan: the strongest move is to play here

liu: and say the W group is already dead, and the L2 group owes a move, but

lian: is there the C2 and F1 kosumi?

fan: wow, your reading is so fast]
(;W[jr]
;B[ac]C[B wins])
(;W[gm]
;B[gl]
;W[bm]
;B[cm]
;W[dn]
;B[ho]
;W[bo]
;B[am]
;W[js]
;B[ac]
;W[cr]
(;B[br]
;W[dr]
;B[bq]
;W[fr]C[W can live])
(;B[dr]
;W[ds]
;B[br]
;W[fs]
;B[hs]
;W[bq]C[ko
])))))
(;W[]
;B[oa]C[W is already alive now, even if B ends the ko]))
(;B[oa]C[if B ends the ko


...

liu: B not ending the ko must imply it isn't enough and B can't fight the A15 ko]
;W[oj]
(;B[rf]C[is W dead in the corner?]
(;W[be]C[liu: but the problem is there is a very big move here, I'm not sure if W should atari or descend A17

if atari, I think it is a ko inside

fan: maybe the fighting still hasn't ended, they are still fighting a ko

....

fan: if ko, doesn't W have a lot of ko threats with the R18 group?

liu: also with the S4 group]
;B[]
;W[qp]C[fan: yeah, so many threats, sente seki]
;B[qq]
;W[rr]
;B[rq]
;W[sr])
(;W[ac]C[descending is also very big, but who wins?

fan: have to count, if it's not enough, then W has to fight the ko.

]))
(;B[rd]C[liu: I know you were discussing this earlier, it seems W has nothing]
;W[ra]
;B[sb]
;W[sc]
;B[rf]
;W[pa]
;B[pb]C[this works]
;W[ob]
;B[pc])))
(;B[oa]C[liu: it's like fan said - B can end the ko, but B can come down at B5, and W didn't waste a dame move at F14]))
(;W[ob]
;B[dk]C[now the top B group is alive

fan: B's opponent is definitely me

B wins easily

liu: though W dealt with all its groups, it wasn't left with much territory]
;W[ff]
;B[ma]))
(;B[dk]C[the top group is a problem]
;W[ff]C[there is a ko at O18

lian: so this B group is bigger than the E2 group?

liu: it isn't so easy to kill E2 with 2 moves

hehe, lian is thinking "with my strength", how can it not die, 

fan: not so easy to kill

lian: and perhaps the O18 ko isn't that heavy for W, 

fan: even if B wins the ko, the W corner isn't dead

lian: wait, but after S19 and Q19, Q18 ...

fan: oh, you can still connect

liu: as the game is also ko, the problem you are discussing will come up soon]))
(;B[]
;W[ni]
;B[oh]
;W[li]
;B[of]C[liu: we mentioned before that if W P10, B can live with R6, but now W has P8]
;W[ol]
;B[oj]
;W[pk]
;B[nj]
;W[nm]C[fan: so L2 is safe now too, W defended two groups at the same time

liu: and W leaves a big move here too]))
(;W[nj]
;B[pk]C[B can connect])
(;W[oj]
;B[nj])
(;W[ng]C[liu: to cut off, W needs to]
;B[me]
;W[ni]
;B[oh]
;W[oj]
;B[qn]C[liu: but B does have a back door to live, and W has the option to capture the five (N7)

fan: there are still are lot of threads!

everything dies very stubbornly!]
;W[ol]
;B[ro]
;W[nm]))
(;B[nj]C[liu: if turn]
(;W[li]C[maybe I just capture your stones

fan: if W is all thick...

liu: oh no, this doesn't work

fan: hehehe

liu: I can't just casually strike])
(;W[mi]C[lian: here? 

it's difficult for B to do anything as the O11 squeeze is sente

fan: and B's group isn't alive])))
(;W[]
;B[jr]C[liu: if I try to kill?]
;W[jq]
;B[is]
;W[ip]
;B[hp]C[lian: oh! I misread

liu: so it's not so easy to kill

fan: there's a liberty shortage]
;W[io]
(;B[ho]
;W[jo]
;B[ko]
;W[in]
;B[hn]
;W[kp]
;B[im]
;W[jp]C[fan: B has no time to capture]
(;B[gm]
;W[lp])
(;B[jm]C[liu: B's liberties are too short]
;W[gm]))
(;B[jo]C[liu: if here, B can't hope to unconditionally kill as B is not alive]
;W[ho])))
(;B[kk]C[liu: lets understand it as]
;W[il]C[liu: W gets to atari here]
;B[ll]C[so W is totally thick

lian: unacceptable for B

fan: wait a sec, W is more solid here, but what about the L2 group? Is it alive? Oh so maybe W is happy just to defend now?

liu: W is definitely not cleanly alive 

fan: but B doesn't dare to kill?

liu & lian: yeah, difficult to kill.]))
(;B[os]C[liu: W can't connect back already so, can B fight here?

]
;W[ls]C[fan: here first
]
;B[ns]
;W[gr]C[liu: fan sensei has defended against everything!

lian: what is this, I can't see clearly at all?]
(;B[hq]C[liu: if here, W already has a ko to connect under

fan: and threatening B's life])
(;B[jr]
;W[jq]C[liu: after the cut, ]
;B[is]
;W[ip]C[liu: the top collapses])
(;B[is]
;W[jq]
;B[hp]
;W[io]
;B[ip]
;W[mm]
;B[km]
;W[ll]
;B[kk]
;W[jo]
;B[kp]
;W[in]C[fan: B is already dead, with very few liberties

liu: wow this variation, I see xiao is still calculating

]
;B[jm]
;W[jr]
;B[hq]
;W[gs]
;B[hs]
;W[gp]
(;B[gq]
;W[go]C[liu: this seems to work])
(;B[go]C[lian: maybe G3, hmm, it's all the same]
(;W[ho]C[fan: how about here?]
;B[gq]
;W[fq]
;B[gn]
;W[gm]
;B[kn]
;W[ko]
;B[lp]
;W[mp]C[lian: this is a ko where W takes first]
;B[ml]
;W[il]
;B[nm]
;W[im]
;B[nn]
;W[fo]
;B[no]C[liu: we need to think about exchanging, such as with B8 or sacrificing the right side group to win the ko

fan: looks like my preparation was still insufficient

lian: I think we didn't get the liberties right
liu: yeah
fan: yeah])
(;W[gn]C[fan: maybe this is better

lian: yeah, I need to think about it

yes now B is dead]
;B[gq]
;W[fq]
(;B[kn]
;W[lp]
;B[ko]
;W[ho]
;B[no]C[fan: W doesn't need to connect

yes B is dead

Liu: B got more liberties before by extending to G6

Liu: at least there are a lot of variations here

Lian: at least I couldn't have possibly seen this, from so far ahead, how can you read this out!]
;W[il]
;B[nm]
;W[im])
(;B[lp]C[dhu: I think they missed this variation, but that just means W should have played here earlier]
;W[mp]
;B[kn]))))))
(;W[hq]C[liu: so why not here?]
;B[iq]
;W[ir]
;B[hp]
;W[jq]
;B[hl]
;W[il]
;B[im]C[fan: also a very complicated fight

lian: looks very complicated

fan: it was more confident about pressing at K9, it was more confident about the L2 group ]))
(;W[jn]C[liu: such as this, this will have 30 points

fan: I did check this]
(;B[jj]
;W[ij]
;B[jg]C[B originally was to be captured at M15, but now it is captured here

this is a lot of points

liu: B captures about 30 points

Fan: and the lower side is just 30?

and B got C8, a success for B!

this is unacceptable for W, W can't be slack with even one move.]
;W[ig]
;B[if]
;W[kg]
;B[jh]C[B can run])
(;B[il]
;W[hl]
;B[hk]
;W[ij]C[fan: oh, so now there is the L9 cut]))
(;W[jk]C[lian: this protects against the cut, but oh, ]
;B[kl]
;W[jn]C[now B can't capture at K13 like before, but ]
;B[il]C[lian: this cut is severe

fan: but then why couldn't B cut directly?]))
(;W[gl]C[lian: my first instinct]
;B[gn]C[liu: perhaps peep?]
;W[fn]C[lian

liu: I don't know if there is anyway for B to use the sentes here to enter here])
(;W[bm]
;B[cn]
;W[cm]
(;B[dn]
;W[en]
;B[ep]C[this is sente])
(;B[]
;W[ep]C[lian: but with this, even though B needs to defend the corner, it seems like B has to tenuki, W already got so much in points on the left, and thickness, and the corner doesn't have many points anyway

Fan: now the whole top left B stones are in W's surrouding net

Liu: B is now thin too])))
(;W[ep]C[if connects, the difference is huge]
;B[fn]C[W has no move

fan: it seems like all W's stones may have L&D risks]))
(;B[fn]
;W[go]C[this seems perfect

fan: and it isn't so easy for B to build the left now as these stones will get hurt]))
(;B[le]C[liu: I thought this move was very big

B gets an extra 10 points or so, and leaves K13 to capture more, and connects both sides to become completely thick]
;W[kl]C[fan: probably here, such a big area

liu: after this it seems hard to enter, probably just a bit of reduction

liu: at a glance it is 30-40 points]))
(;B[]
;W[li]C[liu: and I think that after W plays here W has eyespace, and B has some trouble at P10]
;B[]
;W[oj]
;B[nj]
;W[ok]C[O11 and O8 are miai]))
(;B[rc]C[if respond

...

fan: especially as it is hard for B whether or not to choose this move

liu: and it does seem that once W has got this exchange, it has a critical impact on the J14 fight

fan: very complicated ]
(;W[jc]
;B[jb]
;W[mb]
;B[lb]
;W[la]
;B[kb]
;W[rb]
;B[sb]
;W[qc]
;B[re]
;W[ob]
;B[pd]C[liu: yes it lives but R10 will die]
;W[pc]
;B[sg])
(;W[if]C[something like this]
;B[he]
;W[hg]C[if B can't submit, ]
;B[gg]
;W[ff]C[then there may be a liberty problem with the B group]
;B[ig]
;W[jc]
;B[jb]
;W[mb]
;B[lb]
;W[la]
;B[kb]
;W[hh]
;B[jg]
;W[lf]C[fan: this variation did appear in alphago's calculation, with W H18 to short B's liberties

though complicated, B does have something to fear]))
(;B[rb]C[fan: it seems to be a probe whether B will play here to kill or not?, something to do with liberties

]
;W[rc]C[liu: if attach, W can basically live in the corner]))
(;W[ce]C[fan: W already doesn't plan to block anymore

+lian, liu: just atari and connect is sufficient]
;B[cd]
;W[dc]
;B[df]))
(;B[cd]C[liu: if B continues here]
;W[fd]C[liu: perhaps this is enough?

fan, lian: should be]
;B[dc]
;W[gc]C[inside, at the top, it's already unclear, on the left, W can still run]))
(;W[ce]
;B[ed]C[fan: just here]
;W[dc]
;B[hf]
;W[hg]
;B[gg]
(;W[ff]
;B[fe]C[fan: D15 is important

liu: oh, now it makes sense and W can't immediately escape with E14

lian: also it helps with ...])
(;W[gd]
;B[he]
;W[fe]
;B[ff]
;W[if]
;B[gf]
;W[gc]
;B[fb]
;W[fd]C[fan, liu: oh

without D15, W would have escaped

liu: it's still very important

lian: and W could K17, hane, and leave a ko first

liu: B collapses
]
;B[ee]C[now W dies

liu: extremely clever!

fan: the sequence is necessary, these attachments aren't just random.])))
(;B[ff]C[liu: suppose I hane?]
;W[hf]
;B[he]
;W[if]
;B[fe]C[no choice]
;W[db]C[fan: these exchanges should be ok for W?

liu: they should be good for W

capturing F18 is still very big, with sente aji, but W got a lot in sente.])
(;B[fq]C[liu: before this move seemed understandable

liu: perhaps the difference is that after G14, the K14 group is stronger, so B thinks this fight is no longer so advantageous?])
(;B[]
;W[fp]C[liu: but it is very big for W to spend a move here - the area is very perfect]))
(;W[db]C[lian: if W responds as normal, will B turn to attack?

fan: not necessarily
]
;B[ed]
;W[dc]
;B[fq]C[liu: still indirect

waiting for the best chance to attack

still understandable]))
(;W[nf]C[there is the possibility of ]
;B[pd]
;W[oi]))
(;B[le]C[lian: what if B cuts?

fan: I was very worried too. It plays quite simply]
;W[gd]C[liu: it sense of purpose is very strong]
(;B[lf]
;W[fd])
(;B[fd]
;W[ld]
;B[lc]
;W[nd]
;B[lf]
;W[hb]C[fan: it thinks this fight is difficult for B

this will still be a long fight, but perhaps it thinks W is more light and flexible - this was originally B's territory

lian: it's hard to tell
fan: it is quite complicated

liu: but at least we can understand W's purpose])))
(;W[ih]C[liu: for example, it is hoping ]
;B[ch]C[B gets a move with a lot of value

just like yesterday with Shi Yue, alphago very rarely just defends passively,  it almost always defends by attacking]))
(;B[hb]
;W[gc]
;B[gb]
;W[fd]))
(;B[lf]C[liu: for example just defending the large area?

fan: I looked at this too - if I played, it would be here]
;W[mk]C[liu, lian: ohh]
;B[mj]
;W[lj]C[liu: it seems like B only has that big area]
;B[mi]
;W[dm]C[Fan: it seems like an enormous W area]))
(;W[fq]C[liu: does it think playing in the centre is better than the corner or the L2 turn? All are to reinforce the W group]
;B[jn]C[like this alphago might play here, and the influence is very different

it will often think about these 5th or 6th line moves

Liu: yes, we can see now there is a very big difference between B playing in the centre or W playing first.]))
(;W[ql]C[liu: it seems like W can't bump anymore]
;B[pn]C[W has no move here]))
(;B[pn]C[lian: I was just look at this, but it doesn't seem to work]
;W[qn]C[liu: W can block]
;B[om]
;W[qk]
;B[rm]
;W[qm]
;B[ql]
;W[ol]
;B[sl]
;W[pk]
;B[rl]
;W[nl]C[lian: here seems good]
;B[qp]
;W[nm]C[...
liu: W can delay playing here]
;B[ro]
;W[ok]C[liu: it seems B is too focused on the local

lian: maybe]))
(;W[qk]
;B[rm]
;W[ql]
;B[qm]C[lian: this seems unacceptable for W])
(;W[ql]C[liu: is there this move?]
;B[qk]
;W[pk]
;B[rj]
;W[pm]
;B[ol]
;W[om]
;B[pn]C[fan: tesuji]
;W[nl]
;B[ok]
;W[qn]
;B[nm]
;W[qm]
;B[ml]
;W[nn]
(;B[mc]C[lian: this one space!

it just feels W immediately gets a ko

fan: it always chooses this one space

at least B is satisfied to get this sort of influence. It's still very close, but still.

Lian: I would set up the ko and turn at L2

Fan: that turn is truly very big, pressuring the corner])
(;B[pc]C[it feels like B should play here])))
(;AE[kq][lq][mq][lr]AW[jp][lp]C[liu: it feels better than this]))
(;B[mp]C[fan: if attach, ]
;W[fq]
;B[gp]C[now it seems more awkward for B to capture the two stones, and W still has the option to O5]))
(;W[mo]C[normally to run, we play diagonal or jump])
(;W[lp])
(;W[fq]C[liu: so alphago says that if directly, then]
;B[gp]C[B will try to capture on a large scale?

fan: i'm not sure]))
(;W[bm]))
(;B[qk]C[Liu: normally we would play here, and it is hard to see how a 2nd line for 3rd line exchange can be good]
(;W[rk]
;B[qj])
(;W[of]C[Fan: I did investigate this question, but after the next move I didn't dare to ask more

Lian: is it here?

Fan: "ai io" ("eh yo" i.e. wow) truly strong, top players are truly top players!

Lian: it's just I've seen it before

Fan: This is a connected plan

Liu: first low then high

Fan: once it showed me this, I thought that's enough.

Liu: we'll have to convene a congress

Fan: it's too complicated

]
(;B[pg]C[liu: for example if B can't fight and just needs to retreat.]
;W[rk]C[then this is very comfortable])
(;B[og]C[lian: if hane?

Fan: we have to convene congress ...

Liu: my guess]
;W[ng]C[my guess is here, still trying to force B down

Lian: ... yes definitely here]))))
(;W[kp]C[Lian: my shape feeling is here

...

Fan: I think alphago would think there isn't much difference]
;B[on]C[Liu: is alphago afraid of the peep here?

Fan: I don't know]))
(;B[mq]C[our normal move]
(;W[qq]C[Lian: we normally play here, this is what humans are scared of]
(;B[mp]
;W[pp]
;B[mn]
;W[nq]
;B[nr]
;W[qr])
(;B[pp]C[Liu: Lian, what happens in this variation?]
;W[po]
;B[qp]
;W[nq]
;B[nr]
;W[mr]
;B[or]
;W[lq]C[Liu: very good for W]))
(;W[mp]C[this is what alphago was scared of ]
;B[lq]
;W[lp]
(;B[kq]
;W[kp]
;B[jq]
;W[qj]C[so B doesn't jump for fear of this, 4th line for 3rd line exchanges, and Q8 looks too close])
(;B[kp]C[we were always taught to hane, and alphago doesn't cut either]
;W[ko]C[just the simple hane]
;B[jo]
;W[nq]
;B[nr]
;W[or]
;B[mr]
;W[qq]C[Liu: we've seen this

Lian: this is a joseki]
(;B[pr]
;W[jp]
;B[kq]
;W[kn]C[fan: alphago thinks this is even better for W, by a lot.

Lian: I've thought the same. In an online match with Fan Tingyu, I also kept extending on the 3rd line

but for humans, we don't know what to do with influence. We have a thickness, but don't know how to use it.])
(;B[kn]C[Liu: weren't we sometimes scared we can't get the good R3 exchange?

Lian: that's when the lower left is black

Fan: alphago thinks this is extremely bad for B. Normally I say the difference is small, but in this case, it is extremely bad.

Liu: wow. If alphago sensei says one side is far worse off, then I recommend go players not to play this variation without much consideration.]
;W[pr]
;B[lo]
;W[jq]
;B[kq]
;W[fq])))))
(;B[pc]C[Lian: yes we would normally think of this]
(;W[od]C[hoping for W to stand up]
;B[pf]C[now the pincer stone looks good])
(;W[op]C[fan: alphago would play here]
;B[oq]
;W[np]
;B[mr]C[very interesting, we'll talk about this soon]
;W[pe]
;B[pd]
;W[kd]C[Liu: this shape seems familiar

Lian: in the master 60 games it kept playing this

against Chen yaoye, ke jie, ...]
;B[ld]C[it was going to play here]
;W[le]
;B[lc]
;W[ke]
;B[ic]
;W[ne])))
(;B[np]C[in all the other games, alphago pretty much defends without thought]
;W[od]C[fan (to liu?): we did discuss that game where]
;B[pf]
;W[pk]))