It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:53 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: ladder software for clubs?
Post #1 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:54 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Does your club keep a ladder? If so, what software is used?

By ladder, I do not mean a ladder on a go board, but a numbered/prioritized list of players. The list keeps track of club games and can be regularly updated to process results of games played and changes in playing strength. Sorry, I am not an native English speaker; do I make myself clear? I haven't been able to find such software.

I recently obtained an excellent spreadsheet for this purpose, but perhaps there is some dedicated software around?

Sorry if this was asked before. I was not able to find more about this on this forum.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #2 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:06 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1625
Liked others: 542
Was liked: 450
Rank: senior player
GD Posts: 1000
The Online Go Server has ladders for 19x19, 13x13, and 9x9. See https://online-go.com/ladders. Since this is an online "club" their ladders must be computer managed. Maybe you could find out how they do it.


This post by gowan was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #3 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:13 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1625
Liked others: 542
Was liked: 450
Rank: senior player
GD Posts: 1000
I found this reference after making the above post. Here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... 12l0LpLItY are descriptions of ladder systems used by different clubs. Apparently none of these clubs use software. These systems could be set up using Excel I guess.


This post by gowan was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #4 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:51 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
The Cambridge junior club stick/velcro names onto a piece of cloth that gets hung up vertically each session and rolled up when not in use.

The university club have one on their website. I imagine they rolled their own software. https://cugosoc.soc.srcf.net/ladder/


This post by Uberdude was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #5 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:18 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Uberdude wrote:
The university club have one on their website. I imagine they rolled their own software. https://cugosoc.soc.srcf.net/ladder/

I would be happy if I can get a copy of the software which must be behind this webpage.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #6 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:45 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
It should be fairly easy task to write such a software. (I might even consider doing it as a "hobby" project, if someone presents the requirements - this is not a promise or commitment to anything)

_________________
Offending ad removed


This post by tj86430 was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #7 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:38 am 
Beginner

Posts: 10
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 1
Rank: Low dan
tj86430 wrote:
It should be fairly easy task to write such a software. (I might even consider doing it as a "hobby" project, if someone presents the requirements - this is not a promise or commitment to anything)

I was thinking the same, starting from scratch can often be easier than adapting existing code.

For a ladder all we really need is a file with the participants and a function to bump people. Ruby is a good language for this, a website can be assembled quickly with Rails and hosted for free at Heroku.

Initially an API can be developed like host/addplayer/name and host/registerwin/namewinner/nameloser

_________________
Triangular Go: http://triangulargo.club/

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #8 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:39 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
tj86430 wrote:
It should be fairly easy task to write such a software. (I might even consider doing it as a "hobby" project, if someone presents the requirements - this is not a promise or commitment to anything)

Ideas for such a project?
I can probably give you the requirements. What programming language do you think might be appropriate?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #9 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:41 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Given that there is so much software for go, and much of it is even open source, I am surprised there is not yet a freely available piece of software for this.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #10 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:42 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
sybob wrote:
What programming language do you think might be appropriate?

Without seeing the requirements, I would probably go with PHP & MySQL (or MariaDB), so it could be deployed on virtually every website hosting provider.

_________________
Offending ad removed


This post by tj86430 was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #11 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:49 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1494
Liked others: 111
Was liked: 315
Edwin Brady wrote a piece of ladder software. https://durhamgo.club/faq.php
If you tell him that your club worships Ivor the Engine you're bound to get a positive response from him.

_________________
North Lecale

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #12 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:45 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
tj86430 wrote:
sybob wrote:
What programming language do you think might be appropriate?

Without seeing the requirements, I would probably go with PHP & MySQL (or MariaDB), so it could be deployed on virtually every website hosting provider.

Would you be willing and able to make this?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #13 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:30 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
sybob wrote:
tj86430 wrote:
sybob wrote:
What programming language do you think might be appropriate?

Without seeing the requirements, I would probably go with PHP & MySQL (or MariaDB), so it could be deployed on virtually every website hosting provider.

Would you be willing and able to make this?

I sent you a PM

_________________
Offending ad removed


This post by tj86430 was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #14 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2011
Location: Groningen, NL
Liked others: 202
Was liked: 1087
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
I've found that tournament software like McMahon (by Christoph Gerlach) is actually quite suitable for this, as long as you're willing to periodically reset (which IMO is a good idea anyway).

The idea is:

Every 3 months you start a "new tournament" of 13 rounds which is a new season. At this point you input all present players with their current rank and mark them as playing in the current round. In every subsequent round you add new players as needed and mark the present players as playing in the current round and absent players as not playing.

You can then let the program pair normally and it will then do some things you want. It will
1. Try to avoid pairing players that have already played.
2. Try to minimize strength differences in the pairing.

After 13 rounds, you can, if you want, declare one or more winners (most wins, best win percentage with at least X played, etc)

Also, you can publish a wall list on your website after every round if you want.

The reset every three months allows you to take into account that players may have gotten stronger or weaker in the mean time (also taking into account tournaments they've visited).

Don't set any upper or lower bar (otherwise the "strenght difference" minimalization breaks)

You can set McMahon to give full handicap if you want, and you can let it base the handicap on the rank (rather than McMahon score). Or base it on the McMahon score if you want it to change based on results during the season.


This post by HermanHiddema was liked by: sybob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #15 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:26 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1625
Liked others: 542
Was liked: 450
Rank: senior player
GD Posts: 1000
This is a good, free software way to get a "ranking" of the players in the club but does it allow a function which club ladders I am familiar with have, namely the challenge feature. The way that works is a member challenges another member to a ladder game and if the lower ranked player defeats the higher rated player the players switch places on the ladder.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #16 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:25 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
HermanHiddema wrote:
I've found that tournament software like McMahon (by Christoph Gerlach) is actually quite suitable for this.

Indeed, but I was hoping there would be something better, a bit more practical.
In fact, there is. We can now use an excellent spreadsheet in Excel, but dedicated software would even be better.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #17 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:06 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
gowan wrote:
This is a good, free software way to get a "ranking" of the players in the club but does it allow a function which club ladders I am familiar with have, namely the challenge feature. The way that works is a member challenges another member to a ladder game and if the lower ranked player defeats the higher rated player the players switch places on the ladder.

I think clubs use a wide variety of laddering methods.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #18 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:41 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Would WHR work for this?

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #19 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:25 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 914
Liked others: 391
Was liked: 162
Rank: German 2 dan
This kind of ladder is really trivial to manage. You can use a static HTML page and update by hand.

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ladder software for clubs?
Post #20 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:53 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 422
Liked others: 269
Was liked: 129
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Harleqin wrote:
This kind of ladder is really trivial to manage.

In a sense, you may be right. Everything's easy if you already know it.
We want a 'official' ladder, based on EGF requirements, GoR, rank, winprobability, relative con, and automatic computation of new GoR. It also should adjust for handicap and varying komi.
Perhaps I should have specified that before.
Not everyone/everything can handle that.
Just showing the output on a webpage is indeed simple.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group