It is currently Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:00 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #61 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:57 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Hey Bill. I came across an old post of yours from a while back.

A few questions. First, is this game finished? Doesnt look like it to me.

Does the black group at the top center live even though white is surrounding it or does the white group surrounding it become prisoners because of the bigger black group surrounding it? or do they each get points for those territories because each group has two eyes therefore they both live.


Attachments:
Screenshot_2018-05-06-22-47-14.png
Screenshot_2018-05-06-22-47-14.png [ 280.48 KiB | Viewed 573 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #62 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:27 pm 
Judan

Posts: 7419
Liked others: 1931
Was liked: 2663
Joe621 wrote:
Hey Bill. I came across an old post of yours from a while back.

A few questions. First, is this game finished? Doesnt look like it to me.


It's not a game. :)

Quote:
Does the black group at the top center live even though white is surrounding it or does the white group surrounding it become prisoners because of the bigger black group surrounding it? or do they each get points for those territories because each group has two eyes therefore they both live.


Both groups are alive. Neither can be captured -- unless one of their own eyes is filled. ;)

As I said, if you try to capture all dead stones, this will become clearer. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #63 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:56 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Okay thanks I've actually been letting the computer play each other all day and I count the board at the end of the match without looking at the results and im right every time so thats good. I was just confused about that diagram you posted but that answers my question thanks. I also have been playing it out to the end to see what happens because the
two computers end the game early, what I've noticed is that it usually doesn't effect score its still the same unless one player slips up.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #64 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:52 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
How would you guys calculate this score? Black wins by 15? This is just an example I came up with to help me learn so bare with me.


Attachments:
Screenshot_2018-05-07-12-49-42.png
Screenshot_2018-05-07-12-49-42.png [ 837.39 KiB | Viewed 526 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #65 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:10 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1192
Liked others: 536
Was liked: 335
Rank: AGA 4k KGS 2k
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Assuming neither side thinks they can capture any stones of the other, Black has 18 points inside her live groups, and White has 3 inside hers, and there are no prisoners, so Black wins by 15.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #66 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:15 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 248
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 53
Rank: kgs 6 kyu
KGS: Pio2001
Since there are no prisoners, it seems that White has passed 19 times during the game (if there was no handicap) !

That leads to extremely special results, with a huge difference between the chinese and japanese rules.

Japanese/korean rules with a 6.5 komi :
Black's territory = 18
Black's captures = 0
Black's score = 18

White's territory = 3
White's captures = 0
White's komi = 6.5
White's score = 9.5

Chinese/AGA rules with a 7.5 komi :
Black's territory = 18
Black's stones on the board = 37
Black's score = 55

White's territory = 3
White's stones on the board = 18
White's komi = 7.5
White's score = 28.5

If it was a handicap game, the result would be different.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #67 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 1:00 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Pio2001 wrote:
Since there are no prisoners, it seems that White has passed 19 times during the game (if there was no handicap) !

That leads to extremely special results, with a huge difference between the chinese and japanese rules.

Japanese/korean rules with a 6.5 komi :
Black's territory = 18
Black's captures = 0
Black's score = 18

White's territory = 3
White's captures = 0
White's komi = 6.5
White's score = 9.5

Chinese/AGA rules with a 7.5 komi :
Black's territory = 18
Black's stones on the board = 37
Black's score = 55

White's territory = 3
White's stones on the board = 18
White's komi = 7.5
White's score = 28.5

If it was a handicap game, the result would be different.


I was using Japanese rules and no Komi. I counted 15. Not sure why the computer calculated 15.1

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #68 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:11 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Okay one more and I swear I'm done.

I got 42 for black and 14 for white. Black wins by 28.0 points. Is that what you guys came up with? I know the game is not finished I played it out to the end afterwards but lets just say it was. Would that be the correct score, 42-14?


Attachments:
Screenshot_2018-05-07-17-51-18.png
Screenshot_2018-05-07-17-51-18.png [ 875.89 KiB | Viewed 500 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #69 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:36 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8062
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 306
Was liked: 1829
GD Posts: 312
Hi Joe,

Suggestions for a better experience both for you and visitors of this forum:

- Finish your games. ( Already mentioned many times in this thread. )

- Resize ( shrink ) large photos.
- Use the [hide] tags for ( large ) images. Example:
Attachment:
x.png
x.png [ 140.12 KiB | Viewed 497 times ]
- Remember some visitors use very small screens (e.g. iPhone 5).

- Use diagrams.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | O X X X . X X O O O X . X |
$$ | O X . X X X O . . O O X X |
$$ | X . X O O O O X X O . O X |
$$ | . . X X O . X . X O . O X |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O O O O X |
$$ | . X X X X O , X X X O X X |
$$ | X X O O O O X X . X O O X |
$$ | X O O X O X X X X O O O X |
$$ | O O X . X . X . X O . O X |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

- Use [sgf] tags.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #70 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:54 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Ahh so that how you're so quick to reply using diagrams xD

Thanks.

I want to thank you guys. All of you who posted here especially Bill and EdLee, for your dedication to helping me and such fast response timing. To think that a month ago the only liberty I knew of was the statue of liberty, the only atari I knew of was the joy stick game system, the only eyes I knew of were on our faces, and the rest I wouldn't have learned about if it wasn't for you guys helping me thank you.


Last edited by Joe621 on Mon May 07, 2018 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This post by Joe621 was liked by: dfan
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #71 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:24 pm 
Judan

Posts: 7419
Liked others: 1931
Was liked: 2663
Joe621 wrote:
Okay one more and I swear I'm done.

I got 42 for black and 14 for white. Black wins by 28.0 points. Is that what you guys came up with? I know the game is not finished I played it out to the end afterwards but lets just say it was.


No, let's not just say it was. Trying to score unfinished games gets you in trouble.

Quote:
Would that be the correct score, 42-14?


The game is not over, there is no correct score. And, BTW, the number of prisoners is screwy. By alternating play Black should have 12 more prisoners than White, not 3. That's why I have given two possible scores, one where Black has 9 more points than the picture gives him credit for.

Anyway, Black has a clever play to pick up one point. I would not expect a beginner to find it. Even Ed might overlook it. ;)


_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: EdLee
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #72 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:43 pm 
Judan

Posts: 7419
Liked others: 1931
Was liked: 2663
Joe621 wrote:
To think that a month ago the only liberty I knew of was the statue of liberty


Ohhenri Patorikku wrote:
Give me liberties, or give me death!


;)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #73 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:54 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8062
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 306
Was liked: 1829
GD Posts: 312
Hi Joe, You're welcome.
Quote:
the only atari I knew of was the joy stick game system
Nolan Bushnell was a Go fan; thus the company name. :)
Quote:
Ahh so that how you're so quick to reply using diagrams
Not quick at all: only 1 index finger tapping on a tiny iPhone5 ! :blackeye:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Territory inside territory question.
Post #74 Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:28 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
EdLee wrote:
Nolan Bushnell was a Go fan; thus the company name. :)


Well that explains it! :D

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group