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 Post subject: My silly thoughts about which pro players to study
Post #1 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:41 am 
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(more or less meant to be humorous)

So, after a long break (a year or something?) i decided to continue playing and studying go. This time... serious :batman:

So, one thing wich interests me from the beginning when i started learning the game, was that different pro players can have a different style. Most styles are in itself not better or worse than any other... they are just different and maybe reflecting the personality or at least the approach to GO wich the player has.

I really love the "the style of" book series by Yuan Zhou by the way. Think of the difference between Masaki Takemiya, Lee Changho and Seo Bong-soo... that is really one of the cool things in GO, there is probably not "the one and only move" but different ways of being creative and successful (winning).

So...

I like the idea to pick one Professional and really intensely concentrate on his (or her) games. That is something i always wanted to do... but in fact, up till today, i can`t really decide. I replayed many Go Seigen games... but also Seo Bong-soo, the current modern games at Go4go... Lee Sedol... Sakata (oh man, **** fighting, how cool is it to be good at Shinogi?!).

One part of me wants to focus on one player and the other part wants to see as many different styles as possible.

Is it good to pick a player wich no longer plays or not plays many games? (a senior player?) I think even while amateurs are far from pro level, it is nice to keep up with modern developments, like Alpha Go`s 3/3 etc. etc. Josekis wich are played by the pros are played by us amateurs as well... so maybe i should pick a modern player, not Sakata or Shuei.
Another voice in my head says: But Go Seigen is the best player of all times, how can you hesitate...
So... if i pick Go Seigen as my role model ... and focus mainly on his games, maybe i will miss the chance to intensely following a modern player?
Ok, what about Seo Bong-soo, he still plays... but there are many players wich can defeat him, like Ke Jie?
Why not studying Ke Jies game, he is much stronger, and he thinks so much about how to change his style through the influence of AI...
But i like Seo Bong-soos style very much..
Can`t i study all of them? :scratch:
Mhmm... coming back to the beginning: maybe it is good, to pick ONE player... mhmmm
Confused...

Mhmm... no no, Go Seigen is the best... but he plays not the modern joseki... :scratch: mhmmm... i think i also like Lee Sedol very much... :roll:

Let`s pick Shibano Toramaru... he is young and i can see him becoming number :w1: one day maybe? :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: my silly thoughts about wich pro players to study
Post #2 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:55 pm 
Gosei

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I search for patterns I play myself in my go pro game database.

Then I study how the pros would continue the pattern and detect that way what I can improve with my own play.


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Post #3 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:28 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi eyecatcher,
The following are from my own experience (and analogies).
Ymmv (your mileage may vary):

At kyu levels:

Cars --
Me: still learning to screw a nut, connect a wire, etc.
Trying to copy the styles of BMW (since you're in Germany :)), Mercedes, Ferrari, Tesla, etc.

Buildings --
Me: still learning to hammer a nail, saw a board, etc.
Trying to mimic the designs of Frank Lloyd Wright, Zaha Hadid, I.M. Pei, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: my silly thoughts about wich pro players to study
Post #4 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:15 am 
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Just a few ramblings...

I was intent on studying Yoo Chang-hyuk's games because he plays for influence and attacks, so it was recommended to learn from this style how to use influence.
At the time I looked at some of his games but did not understand. They looked just like any other pro players games. I might have a better chance of understanding now I'm a bit stronger, mybe a little. :geek:

Another pro I was intent on studying was Choi Cheol-han because of his nickname/style of 'venomous snake'. Some of his games are exciting and seem chaotic. But hard to play in the same style, it requires a lot of deep reading, the same with Go Seigen's games I imagine. I've heard it said that players learn more about go by fighting though.

I think looking at lots of games from lots of different players is good, then begin to understand differences in styles mybe easier.

A lot of modern games are all out fighting from the start. And/Or can be solid/territorial games, mybe not the most exciting 'style' but effective.

Personally I'd like to look at games from a pro that plays in an influence style (mybe Masaki Takemiya is a bit too far for my taste), or running fighting games (Lee Chang-ho vs Choi Cheol-han ?) because they're exciting and mybe learn direction of play.

1960's / 1970's Japanese games if I wanted to learn more about fundamentals. So if I was looking at trying to get stronger by studying pro games I'd do this. For fun then Korean fighting/attacking games. :razz:


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 Post subject: Re: my silly thoughts about wich pro players to study
Post #5 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:22 am 
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These days I alternate between the idea that studying pro games is good and feeling it's a waste of time. When I feel it's good, it's mostly the sense of opening my mind to new moves and considering that more is possible in a given board position that what I am seeing. It can break fixed ideas and humble me, but it may improve my candidate moves in ways I can't understand or even explain.

But then there are the games where I have a good lead then self-destruct in some terrible misread. Then I feel there is no external knowledge to be had that could have prevented it; no book, no lecture, and certainly no pro game. At those times I feel like Bart in the comic above and strongly suspect the answers aren't in what I know or don't know, but whether I can be present, attentive, and emotionally composed in the game and not just phoning it in or making irrational attempts to recover too quickly from an earlier error. My self-analysis then becomes: "what on Earth was I thinking when I missed this basic thing?" rather than "what would a pro play?" or "what would on AI play?"

I don't know. Some truth is out there, but perhaps more important is what is not out there, but inside my own brain and body, their functions and dysfunctions.

I was watching some of the streams from the US Go Congress, which I was not able to attend this year due to having an enormous backlog of home issues to attend to, including the aftermath of a car accident (no one was hurt, thankfully.) I was again impressed by how physically fit many of these young pros are. To the man (or woman) they are lean. Whether they can run marathons or not, I don't know, but they look it. I am way too close to couch potato and maybe if I didn't feel like taking a nap 45 minutes into the game I would fare better. :lol: Something to consider.


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Post #6 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:51 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Buildings --
Me: still learning to hammer a nail, saw a board, etc.
Trying to mimic the designs of Frank Lloyd Wright, Zaha Hadid, I.M. Pei, etc.[/hide]


Hi EdLee, i fully agree and this is motivating me even more to learn basics, like good reading / life & death, understanding of joseki and so forth...

But i think it helps to have a goal (for example "i want to design buildings like Frank Lloyd Wright") to avoid getting to much frustrated while learning to properly saw a board. And in Go, even from pro games you can learn some basics :study:

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Post #7 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:33 am 
Honinbo
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Hi eyecatcher,

Yes, the fundamentals are key. :study: :)
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