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 Post subject: 7x7 best play
Post #1 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:40 am 
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I took a look at the 7x7 go board and the link https://senseis.xmp.net/?7x7BestPlay
I undestood that the ideal komi is 9.

After the sequence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]


I do not see how black can reach the score +9

I tried
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]

but I didn't manage to reach +9 with black.

Who can help me?

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #2 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:51 pm 
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Maybe there is a better way for black to play in the beginning, if the komi is 9.

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #3 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:27 pm 
Honinbo

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You might find this thread interesting:

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17413

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This post by Kirby was liked by: Rémi
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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #4 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:34 am 
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Kirby wrote:
You might find this thread interesting:

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17413


Thank you Kirby.
The 7x7 game is not easy at all but at least your link help me a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #5 Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:09 am 
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I understood that in area scoring the perfect komi is 9 points and in territory scoring it is 8 points.

With this in mind do you know if the following sequence is correct for both black and white?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 7 . |
$$ | . . 5 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #6 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:36 am 
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Gérard TAILLE wrote:
I understood that in area scoring the perfect komi is 9 points and in territory scoring it is 8 points.

With this in mind do you know if the following sequence is correct for both black and white?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 7 . |
$$ | . . 5 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]


I believe the sequence is not correct for white because of

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 2 O 3 . |
$$ | . . 1 O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]

and white appears in great difficulty (but I am not sure ;-))

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #7 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm 
Beginner

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Can someone share guides or tutorials on the game? :black:

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #8 Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:45 pm 
Lives with ko

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Gérard TAILLE wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
I understood that in area scoring the perfect komi is 9 points and in territory scoring it is 8 points.

With this in mind do you know if the following sequence is correct for both black and white?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 7 . |
$$ | . . 5 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]


I believe the sequence is not correct for white because of

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 2 O 3 . |
$$ | . . 1 O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]

and white appears in great difficulty (but I am not sure ;-))


According to Crazy Stone, White 6 is a mistake in your first diagram (should be at 7), and Black 7 is indeed a winning move in the second diagram.

Edit: My program generated a small opening book. You can browse it at https://www.crazy-sensei.com/book/go_7x7/

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #9 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:25 am 
Lives in gote

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Rémi wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
I understood that in area scoring the perfect komi is 9 points and in territory scoring it is 8 points.

With this in mind do you know if the following sequence is correct for both black and white?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 7 . |
$$ | . . 5 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]


I believe the sequence is not correct for white because of

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 2 O 3 . |
$$ | . . 1 O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]

and white appears in great difficulty (but I am not sure ;-))


According to Crazy Stone, White 6 is a mistake in your first diagram (should be at 7), and Black 7 is indeed a winning move in the second diagram.

Edit: My program generated a small opening book. You can browse it at https://www.crazy-sensei.com/book/go_7x7/


Rémi, what rules did you use to generate these openings? It seems you use area scoring because I see some mistakes for territory scoring.
If it is the case do you have an opening book with territory scoring?

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #10 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:05 am 
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Gérard TAILLE wrote:
Rémi, what rules did you use to generate these openings? It seems you use area scoring because I see some mistakes for territory scoring.
If it is the case do you have an opening book with territory scoring?

This book uses Chinese rules. I don't have a Japanese book. I am too busy to generate one at the moment, but I'll post it here if I make one later.

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 Post subject: Re: 7x7 best play
Post #11 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:05 am 
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Rémi wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
Rémi, what rules did you use to generate these openings? It seems you use area scoring because I see some mistakes for territory scoring.
If it is the case do you have an opening book with territory scoring?

This book uses Chinese rules. I don't have a Japanese book. I am too busy to generate one at the moment, but I'll post it here if I make one later.


I understand Remy.

BTW this 7x7 problem shows that japonese rules implies more accuracy than chinese rule because the score under chinese rule goes by two points (typically 1, 3, 5 ... points if no seki) but in japonese rule it goes by one point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b 3 . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------[/go]

If my analyse is correct "a" and "b" allows to end the game with 9 points score in area scoring but only "a" allows to get 8 points in territory scoring.

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