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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #81 Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:54 am 
Oza

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Or what app he (and presumably other professional players) uses - is it Master of Go or some form of remote desktop?


I don't know the specific answer here, but offer some random pointers at to what is going on in Japan.

1. Various pros do use different apps, and I expect each of them will also swap between whatever's available - just like amateurs here. Some time ago I saw a Japanese article which asked various pros which bot they preferred, and there was quite a mix, with (from memory) Elf being preferred by some, but LeelaZero, Ah Q, Golaxy and AlphaGo Teach (which was also the subject of a large book on how to use it) being among others. But the pattern changed and I think only Leela and Golaxy got mentions, until KataGo came along, and now my impression is that this is going to be the favourite.

2. As far as I can recall, mentions of Golaxy are limited to commentaries and may indicate some sort of tie-up behind the scenes which give some newspapers companies access to a machine not otherwise available. That's just my speculation, note. And I also get the impression that referring to AI to boost commentaries may have been a nine day's wonder,

3. The Yugen no Ma server offers games with "the latest AI", which suggests to me they change periodically.

4. What is clear is that Elf no longer gets a mention, and DeepZen disappeared without trace from the very beginning. It's a cruel world!

5. The rush to produce books on AI that we saw post-AlphaGo seem to have died away.

6. Articles on pros' interpretations of changes induced by AI are still flourishing (getting better even?). Shibano Toramaru is still ploughing on with his outstanding weekly look at how fusekis are changing and is no up to Week 67. Kim Sujun is producing a bang up-to-date look at new josekis, Omori Yasushi has a nice series on the new ways to make approach moves, and Ichiriki has been using AI to work on endgames. But none of these mention a specific bot.

I barely follow the Korean and Chinese scenes nowadays, but I would expect a similar pattern applies from what I have looked at.


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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #82 Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:48 am 
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3 wins in arow against Kim Jiseok winded up Shin Jinseo rating to 3751!

Edit: win against Park Junghwan allowed Shin Jinseo to achieve rating of 3756. He is short just of 30 rating points to achieve 100 points advantage over nr2 Ke Jie ( currently at 3686).


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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #83 Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:48 am 
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It was nice to see Shin win against one of the big three. He had a losing streak against them recently (lost to Park Junghwan in the last game of Supreme leage and lost to Ke Jie in LG cup).

And even though his rating is so much higher than Ke Jie, I am not convinced he is a stronger player. I think in their last 6 encounters, Ke Jie won 5 times and Shin Jinseo won only once, last year in LG cup semifinal.

I think he is starting to get over his inferiority complex vs the big three. He used to lose to Park Junghwan all the time, but he's been doing better against him lately.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #84 Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:30 am 
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Shin Jinseo won the 1st Supreme player title defeating Park Junghwan 3-0 in the final.
His ranking hit a new record (3765) and is 100 points greater than Park Junghwan's. Shin now holds 3 Korean titles, more than anybody else.
Now he needs to learn how to defeat Ke Jie to start winning the big international titles.

I also compared the ratings to see if there is some kind of inflation. The ratings for #5, 10, 2, 30 and 40 were the same or lower than in Jan 2020. Only the rating for #50 seemed to be higher on June 26. #48 in June had the same rating as #50 in Jan. So Shin might be much stronger than in Jan

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #85 Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:37 am 
Judan

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The first game featured an amusing woopsy from Park when he filled an important dame liberty as a 1 point sente endgame which activated a tesuji inside. At least he was losing anyway.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black to play and make White resign
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . O X X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . O . X O O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O X X O X . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O X . O . O O O O X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . X O . O X O . . X O X . . . X X X . |
$$ | . X . O 3 X X O . O X X . . O X O X . |
$$ | . . X X X 4 O X O . O X . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . X 1 . O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X , O O X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . 2 . X . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O O . . X X O O O X X . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X O X X X X X X O . O . . |
$$ | . X . X X O X X . . X O O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #86 Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:35 am 
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After win against Shin Minjun on 2020-07-09 Shin Jinseo rating rose to 3770 (i think its his new record), and he is just 17 points till claiming 100 points advantage over nr 2 Ke Jie. But he is already 102 points above nr 3 Park Junghwan! Amazing. Its really regretabble that pros does not play no komi long matches anymore.

Edit 27-07-2020:

After win against Park Junghwan on 26-07-2020 he got +5 rating points, and his new record is 3775! The only downside for me is that it was VERY fast game (20min main time +20 sec byo) according to what i saw on FGS broadcast). Next day he played Park again and won that game too (same time settings)! I guess he will got sth like 3779 rating after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #87 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:16 pm 
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I was not far away from 100% accuracy - current Shin Jinseo rating is 3780 (new record)! He is just 8 points short from 100 advantage over nr 2 Ke Jie.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #88 Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:59 am 
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Shin Jinseo won his first 4 games in the Chinese A league and got to a new high rating of 3797. But Ke Jie is doing well too (4-0), so he's got a new personal best too (3715). To really be the best, Shin needs to learn to defeat Ke Jie.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #89 Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:11 am 
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Looks like Gu Zihao's good results pushed Shin Jinseo's rating to 3800. Observed it today, Sept 26, 2000. Congratulations. I believe he's the first human player to reach this level.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #90 Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:15 am 
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silviu22 wrote:
Observed it today, Sept 26, 2000.


Shin Jinseo is born on March 17, 2000 so he is 6 months and 9 days now.


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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #91 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:31 am 
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jlt wrote:
silviu22 wrote:
Observed it today, Sept 26, 2000.


Shin Jinseo is born on March 17, 2000 so he is 6 months and 9 days now.


Sorry, I meant 2020. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #92 Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:10 am 
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I saw in the past days several games between Shin Jinseo and Park Junghwan on WBaduk, it turned out they are part of a seven game series, the first session with three games was just concluded as per https://cyberoro.com/news/news_view.oro?num=527165. Probably the beautiful location helped the quality, the games look like a master class in the new style.

I would like to see similar series between Ke Jie and Park Junghwan / Shin Jinseo :)

For those interested, the games are already loaded on Mace site http://www.go4go.net/go/games/byplayer/1313.


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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #93 Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:47 am 
Oza

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, it turned out they are part of a seven game series,


It's a Super Match on Namhaedo Island (South Gyeongsang Prov.) which is popular both as a tourist centre and as a training camp for athletes. Game 3 was at the famous Sangju Silver Sand Beach. Not sure whether it's best of 7 or a full 7, but Sin Chin-seo is 3-0 up. The games are at a passable pace: 1.5 hours each plus 5x1m.


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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #94 Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:52 pm 
Honinbo

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From the linked article:

Quote:
승패와 관계없이 7차례 모두 대결한다.


Win or lose, they’ll play all 7.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #95 Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:41 am 
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After these 3 victories, Shin Jinseo's rating has reached a new high (3814). There was something about overturned board in the comments from that Korean page. Does anybody know what they were talking about? The google translation wasn't very good.

Did Park Junghwan get frustrated and overturned a board after one of the losses?

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #96 Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:07 am 
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Perhaps a comeback/game reversal? Just paste the Korean sentence you’re referring to here, and I’ll tell you what it says.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #97 Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am 
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Kirby wrote:
Perhaps a comeback/game reversal? Just paste the Korean sentence you’re referring to here, and I’ll tell you what it says.


It was this comment by DuTum:
매 판 찰나의 실수로 좋은 바둑을 놓쳤다는 생각에
정말이지 판을 엎어버리고 싶은 심정이었을 겝니다.
그것도 정말 지기 싫은 상대였을 텐데요..

But I think he was talking about himself, how he ("DuTum") would have have been so frustrated that he would have overturned the board he is was in Park's place.

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #98 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:27 am 
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silviu22 wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Perhaps a comeback/game reversal? Just paste the Korean sentence you’re referring to here, and I’ll tell you what it says.


It was this comment by DuTum:
매 판 찰나의 실수로 좋은 바둑을 놓쳤다는 생각에
정말이지 판을 엎어버리고 싶은 심정이었을 겝니다.
그것도 정말 지기 싫은 상대였을 텐데요..

But I think he was talking about himself, how he ("DuTum") would have have been so frustrated that he would have overturned the board he is was in Park's place.


I don't know the context of this comment very well (I didn't see it in the linked article), but basically he's saying something like:

Quote:
Every game, he makes a really small mistake, throwing away a good game of go - to the point where you'd feel like overturning/throwing up the board (out of frustration). And against an opponent you really hate losing to, too...

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 Post subject: Re: Shin Jinseo
Post #99 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 am 
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Shin Jinseo is going to be very busy:
  • Nov 2, 3 & 4: Samsung Cup final vs his nemesis Ke Jie
  • Nov 6, 10 & 10: KBS cup final vs An Sungjoon
  • Nov 14 & 16: game 4 & 5 of his 7-match series vs Park Junghwan (who will be hungry for revenge)

It seems unreasonable to have to play so many high stake games in such a sort time. I guess he got what he wished for...

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