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 Post subject: Reform in the air
Post #1 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:26 am 
Oza

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It appears that becoming a pro is about to become easier for those with real talent and harder for those without in Korea. Despite the best of intentions, the current system, sometimes called the Korean Insei League, is actually having the opposite effect, according to some, and is creating other problems.

A proposal to start reforming the system has been floated by the Hanguk Giwon in the Korean press. It will apparently be voted on on 3 June 2010, though it is as yet unclear what the new system would entail. The focus at present seems to be to do anything that gets rid of the current problems.

One current problem is stagnation. There are many players in the league but only one or two become pro at a time, and so the rest stay in the league until the age limit passes, causing a bottleneck. An 18-year-old at the top end of the league may have little realistic hope of becoming a pro, and even less of becoming a successful one, but he may still be strong enough to block a still developing 13-year-old with exceptional talent. Many believe that fast tracking the talented youngster may be the better policy. The likes of Gu Li and Kong Jie in China are quoted as examples, which seems to imply that the Koreans are looking at China for inspiration.

More problematical is what may be called the human cost. People who have obsessively stayed on to 18 and failed to turned pro have probably lost out on both a formal education and a social education. The phraseology being used is borrowed from human rights - these people are apparently regarded as suffering from a "deprivation of the right to the pursuit to happiness", which is a somewhat amusing but typically Oriental view of rights. This large number of too-old young Korean wannabee professionals, who are now looking to Japan and Taiwan as outlets for their obsession, was once pithily described by a distinguished British observer as "go bums". It seems, despite the stark difference in terminology, that the Koreans themselves are not too happy with the phenomenon.

There may, of course, be hidden currents. Conceivably this is a case of the Empire Strikes Back. Older Korean pros, now frozen out of the tournament prizes, may be pushing for a return to the system of pupillage where they provide all the future pros through their own schools.

It also looks, incidentally, in the various discussions, as if no concessions will be made to make it easier for westerners to become pros in Korea. Domestic concerns seem to have overtaken aspirations to spread the game internationally, just as, judging by the fall-off in new books from Korea, they appear also to have drastically revised their rather naive estimates of possible sales in the west.

But I stress that this is all merely discussion of a proposal at this stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #2 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:30 pm 
Tengen

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This post was obviously of great interest to many. Does anyone know the followup?

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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #3 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:56 pm 
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As Jing reported yesterday, Cho Insun is the first amateur to become pro through winning 100 'points' in 'pro' tournaments. Here's the report about Cho Insun becoming pro.

We're gathering more information about this at the moment and will write about the details of the new system soon. In the meantime, if anyone already knows the details about how the points system works and so forth, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

Thanks to hyperpape for pointing out that John had started this thread well over a year ago.

I think this is really exciting news! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #4 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:35 am 
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Cho Insun ama 7d became pro 1d by acquiring over 100 points.

He is from ChungAm Baduk school and has reached age limit to become pro and was exited from Yeongusaeng system. He said he studied 12 hours a day after he was kicked out of Yeongusaeng system.

Since Cho started playing in open pro tournament with combined BC card cup preliminary tournament in 2009, he has won 10 games and lost 3.

Among 10 wins, he has beaten well known pro like Yoon Junsang(2007 Kuksu), Park Jieun(2010 Qionglong Cup) and Ding Wei.

Cho has gotten 80 points by winning in 1st round of MyoungIn's main tournament and 30 points from reaching semi final in LG cup combined preliminary.


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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #5 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:16 am 
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According to Kim HyoJung's Baduk story, in new pro exam for general public, 7 men will be selected. And new points system has been adopted.

This will open for many strong amateur who has been exited from Yeongusaeng system due to age limit. In this year's exam for general public, well known amateur like Park Youngrong(22), Kim Hyunchan(23), Ryu Soohang(21), Lee Bumjin(19) Kim Sungjin(22) passed exam and became pro.

Yeongusaeng's age limit is 18 years old(17 years old in western age system).

Also new point system is adopted and anyone reaching over 100 points can become pro.

In points system they give 40 points to winner of Korea's prime minister cup and Japan's World Amateur tournament. Also anyone reaching 32 players round in pro tournament(domestic), 40 points is given. And anyone reaching 64 players round in International tournament is given 20 points.


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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #6 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:12 am 
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I'm rather mystified by how this points system avoids the "go bum" problem John discussed in the original post. Rather, it seems to give ex-inseis an indefinite lifeline to try and turn pro.

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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #7 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:32 am 
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I'd wondered the same. But it does seem to help by creating an exit for older players who do have talent but were blocked from becoming professional by the system. This is only true so long as the qualifying standard for older amateurs is high enough, but so far that seems to be the case.

Still, that only addresses one problem, not the issue of younger (age 13 or so) players being blocked from qualification by their elders.

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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #8 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:45 pm 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
More problematical is what may be called the human cost. People who have obsessively stayed on to 18 and failed to turned pro have probably lost out on both a formal education and a social education. The phraseology being used is borrowed from human rights - these people are apparently regarded as suffering from a "deprivation of the right to the pursuit to happiness", which is a somewhat amusing but typically Oriental view of rights.


This somewhat amusing Oriental view may be found in this venerable document:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


-- The American Declaration of Independence

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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #9 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:58 am 
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According to Christoph Gerlach, who was invited to Korea to explain his program,

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=1763.60

his new version 3

http://www.cgerlach.de/go/macmahon.html

of the program MacMahon shall be used in the Korean insei league since 2011-09-24. Follow the first link for a description of possible tournament system details.

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 Post subject: Re: Reform in the air
Post #10 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
This somewhat amusing Oriental view may be found in this venerable document:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


-- The American Declaration of Independence


The amusing cultural confusion is that "the pursuit of happiness" specifically means a man's right to his own property and enterprise (including labor). It's based on John Locke's "Life, Liberty, and Property." Failing to capitalize on formal education in favor of a failed specialization (failing to reach the NBA, NFL, or Professional Go Circuit) would never pass muster as being deprived on one's inalienable right to pursuit of Happiness under the Declaration.

- Marty Lund


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