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 Post subject: Coordinate list format game records
Post #1 Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Hello everyone! Here I have a few game records that I reproduced in coordinate list format. Most of these are in numerical (X-Y) notation, but I also included some in algebraic (letter & number) notation. My intention is to facilitate the replaying of game records for those who find it confusing to do so using a diagram, especially novices playing Go for the first time. Try these out and let me know what you think. Much obliged in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Coordinate list format game records
Post #2 Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:48 am 
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I don't know. My personal preference is to see a diagram instead, and mitigate confusion by limiting the number of moves per diagram. Looking at a list of coordinates rather than a picture of sorts seems innately more confusing to beginners to me. Given the large number of moves in a go game, it's that much harder to visualize a given board state 50 or 100 or more moves in. I also suspect that having a diagram can help place stones, as in the absence of understanding you can place them by reference to other stones on the board, and the shape helps you confirm that you put it in the right place sooner than seeing if you try to put another stone there many moves later.

That said, I think that people coming from a chess background may like it, as it's more like what they're used to seeing. Even in chess, I find it hard to follow any sort of commentary without putting the position on the board or seeing a diagram, but I am hardly an avid chess player.

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 Post subject: Re: Coordinate list format game records
Post #3 Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:27 am 
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Well, the problem is that coordinates are hard to use when playing a game on a real board, as they aren't there as they are in a sgf editor. In the end, finding where to place the stone by reading the coordinates would take as much time as finding the move on the game record.

That said, it may be superior for ko.

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 Post subject: Re: Coordinate list format game records
Post #4 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:25 am 
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Bki wrote:
Well, the problem is that coordinates are hard to use when playing a game on a real board, as they aren't there as they are in a sgf editor. In the end, finding where to place the stone by reading the coordinates would take as much time as finding the move on the game record.

That said, it may be superior for ko.
Imagining the vertical lines on the grid as being numbered 1-19, from left to right, or being lettered A to T (with I being omitted to avoid confusion with the number 1, thus making the 9th vertical line from left Line J), from left to right, and imagining the horizontal lines being numbered 1-19 from bottom to top can make it easier to use a list when replaying on an unmarked board. I imagine the numerical notation lists to be easier to use on an unmarked board. At first, it is time consuming to do it this way, but as you get accustomed to replaying games this way it gets easier. I believe it is even possible to remember an entire game as a long sequence of coordinates.

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Post #5 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:33 am 
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tekesta wrote:
Bki wrote:
Well, the problem is that coordinates are hard to use when playing a game on a real board, as they aren't there as they are in a sgf editor. In the end, finding where to place the stone by reading the coordinates would take as much time as finding the move on the game record.

That said, it may be superior for ko.
Imagining the vertical lines on the grid as being numbered 1-19, from left to right, or being lettered A to T (with I being omitted to avoid confusion with the number 1, thus making the 9th vertical line from left Line J), from left to right, and imagining the horizontal lines being numbered 1-19 from bottom to top can make it easier to use a list when replaying on an unmarked board. I imagine the numerical notation lists to be easier to use on an unmarked board. At first, it is time consuming to do it this way, but as you get accustomed to replaying games this way it gets easier. I believe it is even possible to remember an entire game as a long sequence of coordinates.


I agree it's likely a question of being used to it. But personally, say a move at 13-15 (which I think would be N-15 with an alphanumerical notation) or something similar wouldn't be obvious on where I should place the stone and would find myself counting (well, unless the previous moves guide me, obviously) the lines and columns to make sure I had the right intersection.

Still, I have seen another advantage to such a notation : it doesn't spoil you the continuation of the game like diagram tend to do :).

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 Post subject: Re: Coordinate list format game records
Post #6 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:42 am 
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For shogi I've seen just coordinates for game records. For go, I've never seen people want it listed that way. Diagrams are much cleaner.

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Post #7 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:01 pm 
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I suspect coordinates are much more convenient when pieces move. In that case, diagrams don't work because there is addition and subtraction each turn, taking a piece from one spot and putting it on another. Certainly much of the confusion with diagrams (for me) comes when there are plays under the stones, but the stones are still on the diagram. In addition, having multiple types of pieces probably makes it much more relevant to have coordinates, since the piece type will often be specified as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Coordinate list format game records
Post #8 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:00 pm 
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Today I replayed a game from Oscar Korschelt's Theory & Practice of Go and a game that I reproduced myself in list format. Like many here on L19, I am accustomed to replaying games from a diagram, so while I was able to replay both games, I still found it a bit tiring as I have yet to get accustomed to replaying from move lists.

Verdict: feasible, but takes some getting used to :cry:

For those who like game records in this format I attach below another file of them.


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