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 Post subject: Re: Lee Jihyun vs. Lee Changho 2018-10-06 Strange Moves?
Post #21 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:18 am 
Lives in sente

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My personal conclusion:

The marked move seems to be too easy on white. I will consider a play at a first in my games.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . a . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . Z O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Jihyun vs. Lee Changho 2018-10-06 Strange Moves?
Post #22 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:27 am 
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Challenge: Let us find a game were elf thinks the marked move is indeed a good move. (In other positions than in the original post.)

In these games it is not:

Lee Sedol, 9p - Shi Yue, 9p, W+R (Komi 6.5)
23rd Samsung Cup, group B, 2018-09-05

(6% loss)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . X . O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . P . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wang Yuanjun, 8p - Park Yeonghun, 9p, W+R (Komi 6.5)
5th Kuksu Mountains Tournament, round 1, 2018-07-28

(21% loss)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . X . . . , . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . X . . . O . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X . O X X . . X X . X a . |
$$ | . O O O X X X . O X O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . O O X X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O X X . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . O . . . X . . . . . X P . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . . . . . . d . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X O O . . , . . . . . X . b . |
$$ | . O O O . X O . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ahn Kukhyun, 8p - Tang Weixing, 9p, W+R (Komi 6.5)
22nd Samsung Cup, semi-final #1, 2017-11-06

(6% loss)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X P . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




In this game it is not too bad:

Cho Hanseung, 9p - Kim Seonryong, 9p, W+6.5 (Komi 6.5)
19th Korean Maxim Cup, round 1, 2018-01-22

(about the same as a)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Gomoto was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Lee Jihyun vs. Lee Changho 2018-10-06 Strange Moves?
Post #23 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:19 pm 
Honinbo

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Gomoto wrote:
Challenge: Let us find a game were elf thinks the marked move is indeed a good move. (In other positions than in the original post.)

In these games it is not:

Lee Sedol, 9p - Shi Yue, 9p, W+R (Komi 6.5)
23rd Samsung Cup, group B, 2018-09-05

(6% loss)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . X . O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . P . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The underneath attachment at M-02 is textbook play. It featured prominently in the first book I bought about invasions when I was 4 kyu. If there was any time for such a defensive play, this looks like it, doesn't it?

_________________
There is one human race.
----------------------------------------------------

The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Gomoto
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 Post subject: Re: Lee Jihyun vs. Lee Changho 2018-10-06 Strange Moves?
Post #24 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Yes, this is why I find it so interesting what elf thinks about it.

(This is not about bashing moves from the armchair ;-). This is about getting a finer distinction when the "standard" move really is the best option and when to look for alternatives first.)

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