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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #201 Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:13 am 
Lives with ko

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Approved.
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #202 Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:46 pm 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b12: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 6 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've also been thinking about capping at E10, but I think I can handle this fight:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 1 2 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 1 4 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #203 Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:41 pm 
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I foresee three points coming our way. What would black do once 44 at H12?
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #204 Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:43 pm 
Judan
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:grumpy:

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #205 Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:52 am 
Judan
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I don't approve.
I fear that younger brother is relying too much on the opponents making bad moves.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . C . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll post more on this later. I'm putting the diagram up now so that our opponents can start thinking.

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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #206 Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:22 am 
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Initial reaction: that's a nice move, seems much better than just A. Answering B below feels submissive, but can (or should) we resist? Wrong or too insistent resistance seems likely to just shut down our possibilities around C and/or give black more thickness with which to threaten our snake in the center. Have to think this carefully.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b12: :w15:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . a . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . b 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #207 Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:51 am 
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My initial reaction is that simply taking the territory with C9 is not an option since he'll be gaining too much strength next to my weak group. That leaves me with the options of pushing and cutting, or ignoring and doing something about my weak group. The cut would be my preference but I'll have to do some serious reading to decide if it's actually viable. Probably not, since skydyr won't let me connect my stones so I'd be creating another weak group. :roll:
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #208 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:39 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 7 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've decided this works. It seems to me that it's very hard for black to keep the D10 and G11 stones seperated while also keeping his D9 stone alive, but if he lets that die my left is strong and profitable.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #209 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:47 pm 
Judan
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:clap: The fun variation. :rambo:

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #210 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:30 pm 
Judan
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For observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I'll post more on this later...


First, let's note that the exchange of K14 for L15 is bad for black in most continuations. White gets a much more stable position and runs one step closer to the friendly stone at P12. Moving out to 'a' is probably better in that it might threaten both white groups.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Second, let's also note that the natural move at E10 provokes the natural reply at D9, and again, this exchange looks better for white in most continuations.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 1 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I don't approve. I fear that younger brother is relying too much on the opponents making bad moves.


He suggests that white might play 2 and 4 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 1 2 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If we could depend upon that, I'd go for it. But there is no way that they will miss this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 1 2 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It might continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc White at 'a' kills, so B must defend, then W has time for 'b'.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 6 . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . 5 . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which looks bad for black.

..or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The cut at 'a' is much less effective, and W threatens something around 'b' \n and 'c' is starting to become W territory.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b b . O O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 4 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Anyway...back to my choice of moves.
The previous diagram shows how constricted black's upper corner looks when white gets E10 first. It is the direction of play for both sides, IMHO, and is therefore the most important play on the board.

The second diagram noted that just taking E10 directly looks better for white.
D10 does not work much better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black still gets pushed back
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So the only thing left is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and white must be careful because of the black play at 'a'.

Ultimately, I'm not sure that it works. But I know that nothing else does.
In other words, it is the only move in the proper direction of play that might work.

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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #211 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Approved. :tmbup:

I sure have no idea how this will end up, but at least it should be fun. I like little brothes spirit :)

Some unrefined ideas, which make this seem feasible for us:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 5 4 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b15: :w12: Marked stone = 54
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 0 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 5 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 6 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #212 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:35 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 7 8 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems to be the only move.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #213 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:16 am 
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Agreed: it is the only move. I approve.

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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #214 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:25 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've done lots of reading, but I'm not sure how to condense that in to a post since I really don't know which lines to expect. Black's strongest resistance seems to be to connect with F11, but I'm not sure how much damage that actually does to my centre group. It obviously damages the G11 stone, but it doesn't threaten to seal me in. Assuming I do reply to it though, here's one possible continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 11 at marked white stone
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 9 6 X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . W 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can sacrifice the two stones and build outside influence, which I'm not sure is worth it, but it does seem to activate the cut at a.


Edit:

I've decided I do like this because black's C14 area is still reduceable (and if white gets to play there black looks overconcentrated) and there is some significant aji in his position, so I don't think black gets as much from this trade as it seems he does.
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #215 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:27 am 
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Approved. Let the fun begin :rambo:

although at glance I'm not a fan of Splatted's sacrifice plan. Perhaps 3 at 11 in his diagram? But there are so many options open right now - lets see where this goes.

This post by TIM82 was liked by: Splatted
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #216 Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Still thinking...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 4 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 5 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 1 O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 6 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 6 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 9 . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Taking this side looks interesting except that it seems to damage the H15 group...

More later. Short on time so no comments, just sequences, really.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #217 Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:51 pm 
Judan
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For observers:
skydyr wrote:
Still thinking...

I hope his next post will indicate that he is thinking about extending from the D9 stone. This is a crosscut, after all, and the proverb tells us that one should extend from a crosscut. E10 has room to run, and some white attempts to chase it turn out to be aji keshi. But D9 can be laddered if it does not get an extension.
I don't know what is best here, but both extensions should be on the short list.

Younger brother seems to be favoring the C12/E12 group a lot. They may be expendable. They are good for territory only if we play D14 in gote. But establishing a group around D7 may be worth more.

EDIT: Actually, there are 3 possible extension from D9. C8 feels bad intuitively, but it might work.

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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #218 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:01 am 
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bump.
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #219 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:02 am 
Oza

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Sorry, I've been busy and haven't decided as yet. I'm still thinking about this, though.
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5
Post #220 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:16 am 
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That's fine. I just thought you might have forgotten it was your turn. :)
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