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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #121 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:12 pm 
Gosei
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Other way, Jordus, other way!

Well, we're definitely behind now...

Well, maybe Phelan will make a canceling mistake. That seems to happen a lot more than I would expect...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #122 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:13 pm 
Tengen
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my plan workout perfectly!!!!
i am a Genius!!!!
but i will not count my chicken until they hatch!!
you never know what you gonna get from our weakest link.

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #123 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:34 pm 
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So my game breaking sequence mentioned back on move 59 (the one I said I would post later...) ....

Might be better now with violence's 3,3 move into the bottom left corner, but here is what i was thinking at that time. (Board position is from back at move 59....)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . 2 . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | 6 1 O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . 4 3 7 . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 8 . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and we have a ladder.... and :D

Same sequence current position....

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . 2 . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | 6 1 O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . 4 3 7 . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 8 . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . b a . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or :b9: around a or b?
hhhmmmmm......

black will probably end up playing for life in the corner and depending on which direction this sequence may become impossible..... though it can get incredibly complicated so maybe not a good one after all...... Originally when I first read this sequence I read the possible ladder incorrectly....

anyways.... just some clarification on an idea I almost forgot to tell you guys about after I said I would....

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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #124 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:10 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm78 Move 78 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . 1 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll probably play the expected move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 Expected
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 3 . X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . 2 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But I wonder if two top stones don't have more interesting aji...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 Alternative
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 4 O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X 2 X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . 3 . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ah, wouldn't it be nice?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 Nope, it's a bad alternative
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 3 . X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X 2 X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . 4 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But it's wrong.

Expected it is. It even forces Violence to play gote and all

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #125 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Bad move... and this is what I get...

Such a simple sequence to capture that stone, are you kidding me?

Feh... Now I'm really annoyed.

If Magicwand keeps playing these annoying overplays, it'll be hard to establish a lead in the game...

At least there's still play here, from what I can read. It's very complicated, but there's room for both sides to make mistakes... which, I'm convinced, after these moves, will undoubtedy happen.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 Move 79 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X 1 X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #126 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:28 pm 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm80 Move 80 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #127 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Posts: 1125
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Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #128 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:03 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Move 81 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



A fairly easy choice for once. Well, we're dead in the corner. Pity that our 4d had to use his move to connect like that. I'm sure magicwand made the right choice with his last move, but my move is awfully big, so I don't feel too bad. I wonder if Jordus has found the other, working sequence now--or if he is thinking he should have tenukied? *resists temptation to look*

hmmm... actually, we're not dead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Move 81 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X 6 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O 2 . O O X X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X 1 . 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that kills our side group. Well, that means we can reinforce the side group in sente (threatening this sequence) at some point.

If we're very, very lucky, topazg or phelan will not notice how harmful this for black and spend a move to pommern (look it up at sensei's) us.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #129 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:24 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is one weird game... Firstly, I'm pretty sure my move is necessary to kill the corner, that's good to be a good gain. Secondly, I think it's sente against the edge too:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . O . . O O X X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #130 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:27 am 
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Sweet!

...hopefully we'll use our free move well. I like d5.

...hopefully there wasn't some other living sequence that I didn't see, hehe.

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #131 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:35 am 
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EDIT: Corrected a mistake.

Also, the point is moot now, so players can read this. Why did you not consider this move, daniel?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Black keeps the corner at least?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, White then gets to come back out in sente to continue in the corner, I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Something like this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . 9 8 . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . 7 O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X 6 . . . . . O . . O O X X O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W B 2 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There's also this possibility:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Move 81 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 W X . 3 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although again, White takes sente ... Another variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Move 81 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . W X 3 2 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think Black can ever get sente, but the corner remains as black's corner.


Last edited by Marcus on Fri May 14, 2010 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #132 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:38 am 
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Hopefully this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X 3 . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 6 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X 9 |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . O . . O O X X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only 1 eye now?
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #133 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:39 am 
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Arg, I'm so curious what everyone is saying, haha...

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #134 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:45 am 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Arg, I'm so curious what everyone is saying, haha...


Well, topazg made the hiding of the comment pointless, so feel free to read it. And also, let me know why you didn't consider my candidate move? Just curious, I'm not sure what would be correct.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #135 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:12 am 
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That was actually the first move I considered but I managed to read it out completely wrong, oops.

Didn't realize I could capture those three white stones if he didn't defend them, and then when I did later, didn't put 2+2 together. Well, that's a big mistake, I should have double-checked. Violence will think I'm on crack...

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #136 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:06 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm83 Move 83 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So the bottom right corner for black is now dead... the right side group is now in jeopardy. There is a great move to play for their left corner now but I can't because we will lose the entire right side. So I will play to save the right side :(

here is why the right side is in danger if :b1: is played elsewhere:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . 1 O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , X X X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #137 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:09 am 
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Sigh right after I posted the move I see i might have been a little too ambitious.... we'll see .....

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #138 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:30 am 
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is it unethical to play mind game?
making your opponent curious and disturb their thinking by posting empty hidden?

anyway..we were successful last few moves.
now i wanna try this again by attacking the group on right.

i realized that myself playing correctly will not win the game.
we have better chance of winning when i play overplay.

it doesnt sound logical but i think it is true.

group on right can not be killed. but it has some aji where their weakest link will play unexpected wrong moves. if i keep this offensive moves they we have better chance of winning because if we make mistake then we dont capture their group but if they make mistake they will kill their group. mathmatically sound theory. ;)

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #139 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:09 am 
Lives in sente

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... we let our corner die... in sente... without even peeping at the cut to gain more aji.

Man... this is the first thing I saw when I woke up. I'm facepalming.

Magicwand must be ridiculously happy his overplay paid off. I guess this means he's going to overplay more, since the move doesn't get around back to me for a few turns.

Well two can play. His lower side stones are looking thin, and I'm pretty pissed off. Let's see what happens when I make a huge mess.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #140 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:19 am 
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Not for the players:
Violence wrote:
... we let our corner die... in sente... without even peeping at the cut to gain more aji.

Man... this is the first thing I saw when I woke up. I'm facepalming.

Magicwand must be ridiculously happy his overplay paid off. I guess this means he's going to overplay more, since the move doesn't get around back to me for a few turns.

Well two can play. His lower side stones are looking thin, and I'm pretty pissed off. Let's see what happens when I make a huge mess.


LOL, this is gonna be interesting.
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