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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #81 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:27 am 
Tengen
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Phelan wrote:
Yep, that's it. I haven't been opening any hide tags that don't explicitly say I can. And it's driving me crazy wanting to know what's hidden there. :P


Phelan, you can open this:
i think it will be fun to make our opponet curious.


and this:
wow double hidden comment. that will be double curiocity. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #82 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:40 am 
Gosei
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Very interesting comment, magicwand. :)

No move yet, just my thoughts.
Man, this move is tough. :-?

My first instinct is to cut, put a stone between his two, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 First instinct is wrong
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It doesn't seem to help white in this area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Life in gote?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 6 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This gives us an eye in gote, if I'm not mistaken,but I don't like it...It seems like I'm missing some sequence around here, although I don't know what.

I'm tempted to play some sente move elsewhere, and let the stronger players sort it out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Some possible alternatives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . h X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . f . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . g O . . . e X b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X a . |
$$ | . . . , . . j c . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . d . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . i . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see anything that doesn't ruin potential, though. :-?

I'm at a loss. I'll look at it after dinner and see if something jumps out.

I'll move after dinner.

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a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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Last edited by Phelan on Wed May 05, 2010 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #83 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:41 am 
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topazg wrote:
iSoma wrote:
Phelan wrote:
iSoma, you're evil! :sad:


What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.


Hehe, I think it's because you didn't say "yes you can" outside of the hide box, which meant he didn't see it as he didn't want to open that hide box either. On top of that, you clearly quoted him, which makes it even more "Man! I really want to know what he said" :razz:


OMG this gets confusing! I mixed up with the meaning of "reading" in the game and "reading" hidden comments and which are hidden and which not. And I wasn't paying attention to the fact that phelan is playing and can't read those hidden comments anyway :lol: Oh well, nevermind. I think it's better to not read them anytime soon, as it could contain spoilers. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #84 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:58 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I knew there was a variation I was missing. There's no life in gote there:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Not Life in gote?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O 6 O 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 5 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm still not sure as to where to play, but I'll try this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 second eye...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #85 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:14 pm 
Gosei
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I'm very interested to see if Violence plays s5 or defends on top somewhere. At first I thought s5 was a no-brainer, but there's lots of places for magicwand to overplay in the top now (and hence ways for me to respond wrong), I think.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #86 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:26 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Move 61 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move reeks of fear, like he's afraid of living. I'll just cut this group off from the center, and then we can start playing on the left and lower left.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #87 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:24 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . W . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i think my teammates are doing fine... we are in good position. i will just play solid.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #88 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am 
Tengen
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Here are the moves I want (preferably all at once!)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . W . . O . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O b . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . b X . |
$$ | . . . d . . . . . O . . c O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"e" is big, but not urgent. "d" is big, but not urgent. Not going to play those just yet. At the very least, big not urgent moves should be left to the weaker teammates as obvious moves to play.

"c" I really really want to play, it's big, and even if it isn't sente, it can't be far off as Black S5 is a response that Black will want to settle everything with points. So, I'm tempted to play the "b" points first (bamboo, then push towards the edge probably), as if Black tenukis the danger on the S4 stone, both "a" and "c" are annoying miai moves.

"a" I just really really really like, and it prepares stuff against the top right, and can't be cut off. If Black ignores locally, the temperature of "b" starts to rise a lot, which may make me happier about playing some of my other moves. As a tesuji, the responses depending on what Black plays are also obvious. This is winning hands down for me at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #89 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:16 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Great, another unclear choice for me to make...

White appears to be basically alive now. We don't have any groups that need help, but we do have some weaknesses. Here's the moves I'm considering:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . c . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . d . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O a . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O e . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a) Mostly just points.
b) defends the corner against a white move one space below b.
c & d) defends the corner, emphasis on converting the top side to points.
e) controls the white stone on the bottom.

All these moves are defensive. Can I find one that threatens something? Hm. (d) actually threatens to kill the white dragon, I think (it allows the eye-stealing tesuji). And d is big for the top. My only concern is a white clamp below b followed by white a, but I think even if that group gets cut off on both sides it can live.

Yeah, the more I picture d the more I like it. I think it even maintains some continuity with Violence's move, continuing the pressure on white.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #90 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:23 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm64 Move 64 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As planned. And it seems to settle White nicely. I don't want to leave too many eye eating options open when it's violence's move.

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Post #91 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:01 am 
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Grr, I knew it. I wonder what Jordus will play...

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Post #92 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 Move 65 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Same thing going on here as in my last move. Gotta protect the corner. points... etc...

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #93 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:21 pm 
Gosei
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Groan. Would have greatly preferred to see S13. S14 would have been better. This gives up a stone that I think we need to hang on to. Jordus is probably thinking too much about the corner territory.

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Post #94 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:24 pm 
Tengen
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Wow, this could get devastating quickly:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 Continuation?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X 3 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 5 4 0 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 7 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 Continuation?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X 4 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . 3 |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O O 2 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 8 7 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #95 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:26 pm 
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For topazg:
As if.

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Post #96 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:34 pm 
Tengen
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For Dusk Eagle:

Hahaha, can't stop a guy from dreaming :lol:

The purpose of such a sequence is really demonstrate the potential depth of the aji. In this rengo game it's never going to play out like that, but it demonstrates I think that 66 is probably the only move. It's fairly big in itself, it threatens to capture further (though small), it threatens to kill with a tenuki, and it clearly completely settled White.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #97 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:09 pm 
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Move tomorrow, want to think about this with a clear head.
I'll probably cut here. I think Jordus is expecting the atari below :w66: but that seems to allow black to still take sente, and seems not to leave any aji left for a corner invasion.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 Move 65 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #98 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:51 am 
Gosei
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Oops, forgot about it. :oops:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Move 66 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see no other worthwile move here.

This is what I didn't like about the atari:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Don't atari automatically.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O 4 O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . 5 X 1 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The descent still leaves some aji for black, but I prefer it this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Followup to the descent?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O 5 O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . 3 X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black simply pulls up:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Move 66 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . b a . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . c . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a or b still seem possible places to invade.
Unrelatedly, I still want white to play around c first. :-?

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #99 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:32 am 
Gosei
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I'm pretty sure Violence will play S13. I bet magicwand will then play r16 (it's a mean dan-player sort of move).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Move 66 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...and then I don't see a good move for black :(

Maybe I'll ignore the corner and play Q13.

EDIT: after more reading, I don't think :w68: above works, phew.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #100 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:58 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 Move 67 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Got any better ideas? I don't.

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