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| #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7021 |
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| Author: | topazg [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
I think he missed my threat... his whole center I think is now dead if I get another move:
This is the shortage of liberties that I think made him think that wasn't a threat, but it's actually to stop him getting two local eyes so I can do this:
I might be mistaken, but I think that kills everything, which means that I can afford to treat his other ko threats a bit differently unless they affect the central fight. |
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| Author: | ez4u [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
topazg wrote: I think he missed my threat... his whole center I think is now dead if I get another move:
This is the shortage of liberties that I think made him think that wasn't a threat, but it's actually to stop him getting two local eyes so I can do this:
I might be mistaken, but I think that kills everything, which means that I can afford to treat his other ko threats a bit differently unless they affect the central fight. Obs: Topazg is not reading closely here.  below is a self atari! So Black has to play 3 at 4. White 4 at 3 then threatens to capture the marked stone to make two eyes so Black continues with the exchange of "c" for "d". But then...
The cut does not work! Because of the way T answered MW's ko threat of the marked White stone, the cut at 6 is left behind. To preserve this T had to answer the ko threat at 6 instead of the marked Black stone. Really T should have played 8 earlier rather than E17. That would have meant fewer ko threats and still preserved the cutting sequence.
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
Obs: That was careless, I should have played there to improve ko threats in that corner earlier. He now has a few threats here, but he is running a bit shorter of threats overall now:
 @  Now he still has to win the ko an extra two times, he has the split to worry about, and I have potential profit in the lower left as well. I'm sure he still has useful threats, but not only are they getting smaller, the amount of points I can hopefully gain after the fight mean I can afford to lose a few points in a ko threat. We'll just have to see. Either way, he's out-done me again on the ko fight, but probably not enough yet to pull off a coup. |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
E3 |
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| Author: | topazg [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
M1 |
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| Author: | topazg [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
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| Author: | topazg [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
Obs: Oh noes!!! My ko threat in the middle wasn't a ko threat. My earlier reading is redundant now because of one of his ko threats:
I lose due to a shortage of liberties... man, that was careless. Instead, I at least get to connect as a ko threat:
And now I get a few more in the middle. Magicwand still has to ignore two more threats before he can create a direct ko here, and some of the ones he's had to make have actually cost him points, so if I win in the corner now, and follow up on my latest threat, then I believe he's comfortably behind. I just have to hope he doesn't have 2 or 3 amazing threats I've somehow missed. I'm quietly optimistic now, but I can't afford another misread like this. In the above diagram, "a" and "b" remain miai for keeping it locally down to one eye due to that threat, which means I get moves at "c" and "d" as two full strength ko threats, and "e" as a smaller threat left. No longer can White play something like "f" as a threat, because I can ignore it now:
I may be able to play  at "b" directly, but if  is at , the cut threat at "c" may be costly enough that I'm better doing this and making miai of "a" and "b" ... either way, this looks good enough for winning: the marked Black stone in the top left was a ko threat that both scored points and threatens the sente hane into the corner, and I've gained the potential moves at "e" and "f" as well. As a result, these are all effective "compensation" for conceding a ko threat somewhere else, whereas a lot of magicwands threats have been non-value threats. This has been so hard to keep track of.Well, we've broken 200 moves now, I hope people are still enjoying it  Is there any questions, are people following it still, and should I be doing the more recent comments, variations and thoughts any differently? For beginners Ko fights are avoided by so many players up to, and sometimes including, dan level players, because the complexities under the surface really are complex. Essentially, you want to play all the moves you want to play anyway, whilst having them be ko threats at the same time. If you play a ko threat that threatens to capture something but is essentially a single play inside enemy territory that your opponent responds to to keep it dead, you earn 0 points with each threat. If he's playing things like yose sente moves as threats that are worth 2 or 3 points each, it only takes 5 threats to lose 10 points overall and the ko fight is still going on. Trying to keep track of the points as they shift through threats alone is a good habit to get into, as is looking for ko threats that are genuinely beneficial to your game as a whole, as opposed to just "something that needs responding to". It's quite possible to play aji-keshi ko threats too, where you are actually losing points in maintaining the fight, as opposed to simply not gaining any. As you can probably guess, I've had games against stronger players where I've dropped 15+ points in a ko fight due to the quality of the threats each of us was making, and learned this lesson the hard way. |
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
L18 |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!) |
B can finish the ko now (and the game?) as this threat is smaller than e4 which MW ignored to go to the next stage of the ko. |
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