Annoying... Ok, that spoils my plans. I still need to make territory on the bottom and right, so I'm going to counter-pincer and fight it out. With some luck, I'll be able to play tenuki to complete the mini-chinese at some point.
As I mentioned sometime earlier, I've been playing around with this particular joseki. It's supposed to be new-ish, so let's see where this goes. For reference, here's the main line:
I've been wanting to try this out with a stronger player, as I know so few variations. If he plays outside of what I know, I'll have to do some heavy reading.
This looks alright for me, though White now gets to harass my lone pincering stone.
Beginners:
Pick something you want to learn and use it in your games whenever you can. Don't try to learn too much at a time ... even small concepts in Go have a good deal to learn about.
For myself, I want to learn more pincer joseki, especially for the 3-4. I take this opportunity to try something I'm not as familiar with in order to learn some more about it.
No matter the result of a game, there's always something new to keep me interested.
I know, not much practical advice for beginners in this one ... don't lynch me!
I don't have time to hane in the corner, I need to build this framework or the game is over. If I play the 1-space low pincer, the pincer stone ends up too close to thickness in a few variations. The 1-space high is too susceptible to forcing moves, and I don't like the feel of the 2-space low pincer (too easy to reduce). This pincer does not allow black to get free forcing moves against it, so I can live in the corner and get my framework too.
edit:
Maybe the game is making me paranoid, but I suspect he was trying to catch me in the trap
What Shaddy posted, playing before , is clearly wrong for the reasons he showed.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
The next few moves will define the flow of the game. White is making a play towards the center. What I need to do is keep my weaknesses to a minimum without sacrificing my influence.
It's one thing to keep my groups strong, but I also have to keep my opponent from completely surrounding the center.
First thing's first, though ... my pincer stone needs some help. White has once again left a joseki incomplete. I can take advantage of that and play a stone on what would have been an important point in the joseki for White. Now my pincer stone has help.
It is a 2nd line move, though. I need to be careful to get some influence towards the center in the next few moves so I don't fall behind in that aspect of the game.
Beginners:
A couple more concepts are starting to show up in the game.
1) My opponent's good move is also a good move for me.
Since my opponent decided to jump out of the joseki sequence, I can choose one of the moves he would have played and play it myself. This weakens his stones in the corner while strengthening my own.
My opponent and I are fighting for position. Before the fight is done, we have to decide how best to use our stones.
In this case, we each have two "groups" to work with. My group is two stones, and has room to run up the left side and out towards the center. My stone, however, is all alone between two White groups.
In a fight, you want to help the weaker group/stone if you can. If not, you want to preserve or use any aji that stone gives you.
In comparison, White's stone has access to the bottom edge towards the right and can run into the center easily.
2) Territory vs Influence
This is another balance to strike in go, and is extremely important in the opening. Notice that White has played his most recent move on the 4th line. The goal of a move on the 4th line in the opening is usually not to secure territory, but to maintain access to the center.
When considering territory, starting in the corners then moving on to the sides is the most efficient way to gain solid points. However, once the corners and sides are settled, you must turn your attention to the center. If you've spent all your opening moves securing territory, it's possible that your opponent has cut you off completely from the center. This can give your opponent a huge chunk of points in the center.
So, once again we find a need for balance in the opening. Short-term plans should be made to take local territory, and long-term plans need to be made to ensure that the center is not as big a factor.
First instinct is correct yet again. Black will have to make life on the side for his group while I develop the framework, and my corner group is pretty strong now. I checked other possibilities, like hane against the corner stone- most of them get my stones cut apart, others end in gote. This is the only way I can get sente out of the corner.
Last edited by Shaddy on Sat May 01, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To me, White's move 20 seems like inefficient shape. There are some traps to watch out for, but I think that Black MUST respond, otherwise my corner becomes rather large. I don't think I need to necessarily respond after White 22, though. Move 23 will be very important.
Yet another failure for Black. So, pushing would be wrong. The best move for Black 23, if White responds directly to Black 21, is to approach the lower right corner.
Of course, given the situation, I bet White plays at R5 or R9 himself right now. I'll deal with that when and if it happens.
Beginners:
The Empty Triangle and efficient shape is a good topic for this move.
This would be the position in the game if White played at D3. Of what use is ? White's stones are connected without it, and it does not threaten to cut at a, thanks to . D3 makes an Empty Triangle (link) for White.
What if White had played directly at D3 instead of descending?
To me, this looks more efficient. His stones are connected, and is under the same amount of pressure as in the previous situation.
In the opening, every stone you play should be either taking big points, or necessary for either attack or defense (ideally, some moves will be two or even all three of these things).
Studying shape is one way to improve in this area of the game. However, simply playing many games and examining each corner once the opening is complete is a good exercise as part of that studying.
I was worried for a moment about whether White could kill my stones on the bottom edge. After reading through a number of variations, though, I believe the stones are safe. At this point, I believe it's very important to limit White's moyo potential.
This move will likely be one of the key points in the game. I need to have a clear plan going into the middle game, and I need to make sure my opening moves are consistent with that plan. My general feeling is that White is trying to build a large framework in the lower right. I need to ensure that I have some presence in that part of the board, or I'll be stuck with the choice of small reductions or deep invasions in order to limit White's potential. If I can keep White's framework broken up in pieces, my mid-game and endgame reductions will be more effective and I will not need to make any silly invasions.
Of course, tenuki here means that White can fix the cut at D3 in sente, and that is big. White gets to take the corner and forces my stones on the bottom edge to live small or escape to the center. However, limiting White on the right is also big.
I think fixing the D3 cut is big enough that White will do so next. White will play a number of forcing moves to gain a good amount of influence towards the center. Likely, White will be able to maintain sente. White wants to play R9 I think, once the lower left is resolved.
Variations:
Here are a couple variations. I believe I can live or escape to the center.
Variation 1: From here, I'm not sure how White will proceed. There are too many variations to show. Note that I play at F2 and not F3. I don't want to give White any more forcing moves than I have to.
Variation 2: I'm forced to run towards the center. I would have to play at a, and Black can then move to the lower right and respond to my high approach.
Beginners:
It's important to try and make a whole board plan early on in the game. I'm sure everyone has experienced games where the opponent seemed to be forcing you to play their style of game, which can be confusing and/or frustrating.
If you have a long-term plan, you can make decisions that build towards that plan in your short-term planning.
For instance, I don't want to have to make any deep invasions in this game. If my opponent succeeds in building an early framework, the likelihood that I will need to make such an invasion increases as the game goes on.
To limit this, I'm leaving White with some big moves to fix his lower left group in sente in order to take a different big move in another part of the board (in this case Q5).
When I make this choice, I need to make sure that I keep my overall plan in mind for future choices. From this point, I will want to choose moves that give me access to the center, and I will want to make some moves soon that close off other weaknesses I have left behind. In particular, I really want to get some time to play at E11, because it accomplishes a couple things. First, it protects around C13, where I have a bit of weakness. Next, it also helps my C7 stone a little. Finally, it extends towards the center ... it will be a lot harder to contain E11 and C11 against the left side than it would be with only C11 in place.
That's weird, I wasn't expecting tenuki so soon. Oh well, it's attack time. This move is questionable, I think, in such a high-komi game. Black's taking too large a risk - my attack will be severe with the bottom star point, so definitely I must play a pincer. I think the one-space low is better than the one-space high: the one-space high makes it easier to settle, but with this low pincer I can make black's life very hard for a while, which is what I want.
I've said that I need to try and keep some center influence. I've never tried this response to this particular pincer before, and I've rarely seen it played (though I have seen it a couple of times). Guess I'll have to read things carefully as the play continues.
Wedge Variation 1: Does this even work? I played the outside atari because I want to keep access to the center. Maybe I was wrong? Let's look at the other side ... a variation I've seen played.
Wedge Variation 3: I've been told this is joseki, but what is White's response? It's something I'll have to think about further at a later point, if we go down this road.
Nobi Variation: That's a pretty big corner for White. However, I got space to run and a couple options for making eyes. White gets shut in. I can live with this.
Atari Variation: I've also seen this in a game. White can start a big fight with a. I don't know how I would respond to this, and it would require more reading ... but only if this is the variation White chooses.
No Beginners section this time. Don't have anything more to add, unless someone has a question for me. Feel free to ask.
Personally, I would have been afraid to attach to that stone for fear of strengthening it unduly. I would have probably tenuki'ed and come back to this area, just so that I did not strengthen the area before that strength would be overconcentrated. Did you consider this in deciding on this move? Or is this not a concern? Essentially, I am asking why the attachment is worth doing in this case. Contact moves scare me.
_________________ Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
Personally, I would have been afraid to attach to that stone for fear of strengthening it unduly. I would have probably tenuki'ed and come back to this area, just so that I did not strengthen the area before that strength would be overconcentrated. Did you consider this in deciding on this move? Or is this not a concern? Essentially, I am asking why the attachment is worth doing in this case. Contact moves scare me.
Heya, Chew.
I did briefly consider tenuki, but then I have yet another weak group (single stone at Q5) to handle. R7 may be a single stone as well, but it is not as weak as my Q5, in my opinion. In order for my overall plan to work out I need to:
1) Create influence 2) Protect my weak groups
Certainly, if I tenuki I can move somewhere else to gain the influence I need, and I could protect my bottom group and make it stronger, but I felt that the best way for me to do both those things was to find a continuation from Q5.
After deciding that I would make a move around Q5, I knew I would need to make some room for myself. Contact moves are for defending, and I want to defend my Q5 stone. I also want to make it as difficult as possible for my opponent to seal me out of the center. So with Q7, I move towards the center, contact a stone to make more room for myself, and get ready for a fight.
The last point to remember, of course, is that I'm only 4k. This is my plan, but maybe it's a bad plan. I won't improve if I don't think about new ideas and try them. Malkovich games are the perfect way for me to try new things, because they force me to think about each move and why I'm making them, and force me to try a lot harder to keep a consistent plan going.
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Shaddy
before 
, is clearly wrong for the reasons he showed.
group is two stones, and has room to run up the left side and out towards the center. My 
stone, however, is all alone between two White groups.
instead...