Continuing the joseki

I don't think this is a good place to break away from this joseki. The point of this move is to make the group definitively alive. This means that white can't easily push it around.

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[go]$$Moves I'd play if I could play four stones at once
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . c . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's entertain the thought, though. Here are the moves on the board I'm most interested in -- a as above, b to prevent the framework white is about to get, c to build my own framework, and d to get my group into the center. Why is it right to play a now?

If I played d first, white would play a and I'd have a weak group on the run straight away. White would probably be able to play something like b during the chase and my escape would likely end in gote, so this seems like a loss on all counts. d has to wait.

c seems slightly better, but I'd still get a poor result around the corner group: white would either seal me in with d or make me weak with a, and get to play b while I struggled to live or run.

b, approximately taking white's next point according to the joseki, might've been interesting if white didn't have d13. It would've put some pressure on the white splitting group, allowing me to gain time to to get a proper base. As it is, d13 means that white group is so far out into the center (and close to strong white positions) that it can't really be chased. (That's actually a revelation for me, as I wondered earlier when looking at the joseki why d13 was so far out into the center.) I'd just end up making two small, weak groups, which is no good.

C9 is joseki, I'm playing it because it strengthens my group in the top left corner and the stone in the bottom left. I considered playing immediately at K4/K3, to stop black getting the nice extension from his Q3 stone, but I decided that leaving the joseki unfinished left the group far too weak, and that I actually gain more from playing at C9 anyway. It really came down to a choice between taking what I want or stopping black getting what he wants. I think that I stand to gain more from C9 than he does from K4, especially as K4 is gote, while an invasion may not be.

I was just about to submit this when I thoght some more. Firstly, I'm not actually sure how you would go about attacking the group at C16. I guess you would prepare by pushing down on the G17 group to stop them connecting then try and force C15 to flee into the middle, but I can't actually picture a sequence to do it. The second consideration is F3. For some reason I had thought that if black played here I would just pincer and trap black in the corner like this.

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[go]$$Bc Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . 1 . 2 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'd be happy with this because it wworks well with my stone at C9, and spoils the extension at K4. However, Black may instead play for influence, like this.

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[go]$$Bc Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 6 5 9 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 8 0 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bcm11 Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X 1 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O O . 2 4 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems playable for both sides. It threatens a huge moyo, but succesfully following up on that may be difficult. I'm not confident in against this but I think I can afford to let it happen, though it might be slightly better for black. Actually I think it's better for white (after looking at the diagram rather imagining it in my head).

I think that I'm still going to play C9, but not just because I think it's the best move. At the beggining of the game I said that I wanted to focus on finding the right balance between territory and influence. I think that the game has reached the point where this is an important consideration. I'm not sure that this isn't letting my opponent get too much influence though, which is why I said I had another reason for playing this move. In my recent KGS games I have found that my opponents have started to make large moyos, and I want to learn how to deal with them. It may be that I'm just not acting soon enough, but if thats so I hope it will become apparant if I keep playing like this.

I think I have to take this point now, or white will just get too large a framework.

Here are the other moves I considered:

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[go]$$Bc Move 19 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . a . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O b . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

They're all attempts to poke my head just slightly out of the corner, to avoid getting sealed in.

c is the straightforward way, not sente and white will probably just respond by taking the lower side.

a and b are fancy attempts to try to accomplish this in sente. Of these, I abandoned a because I don't think it's actually sente: if white answers with a "slap" I need to extend as an answer, and there is no need for white to respond to the extension. As such, just playing the straightforward gote move of c would be better.

b is the one that was most appealing to me. I believe this move is sente because of this sequence, which I believe results if white stubbornly tenukis and then refuses to let me press into white territory:

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[go]$$WcWhite ignores
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 0 O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 9 6 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I don't think it actually does a very good job of preventing white from sealing me in the corner:

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[go]$$WcWhite seals the corner anyway
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

When there's no obvious purpose to it, exchanging d15 for d14 is probably bad: not doing it leaves me more flexibility to make or not make the exchange later. As such, I'll just take the big framework point right away, and allow myself to be sealed in. I may be able to use threats to connect to the corner as forcing moves to reduce white's territory later, so the group might not end up totally useless even sealed in. Besides, assuming white does do the expected thing and seal me in, I get sente to make another move.

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[go]$$Bc Move 7 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No one commented on this, but it looks weird to me. I would have expected either a or b (in fact, Harleqin seems to have assumed that it was at b in his comment). This looks like it leaves the corner rather open, plus the connection south looks weak (it's just asking for c) plus I feel like Black is flattening himself against the side when he should be inflating himself outward and asking for a fight. No one has commented on it, though. Is it better than I think?