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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #41 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:40 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 W13 Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I was looking at different options, like :b1: at F17. Looks like it can become a ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 3 W 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X 2 C 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O B . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 2, 5, 8 take ko.
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O 2 C X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X 6 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 2, 5, 8 take ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O C 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 X O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And here, black doesn't have a local threat that works, so white wins the ko. Even so, the result is not great. My corner is large but enclosed, and black has tons of thickness. At least, even with this ko, I feel like I won't lose everything, so it's worth fighting. There are a million other ways that this can play out, but I don't see anything too much worse than what I've already shown. Even the best results seem only okay for me, but there's not a lot of option at this point. Onwards!


Ah, 'spoiler' tags are identical to 'hide' tags.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W13 Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 W 4 6 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black avoids the ko, I THINK 8 keeps me alive long enough.

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #42 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:19 pm 
Gosei
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I recommend that Black does not read this, but White and observers can.
Classic tesuji is classic. Black to kill the White stones. I'm not going to outright mention the tesuji for two reasons:
  • Those who have already seen it or recognize the tesuji at first glance will, of course, already know it so I don't need to show them.
  • Those who have not already seen it or can't see it at first glance, it's one of those exceptional tesuji problems that is doable for a wide range of levels.


This post by Solomon was liked by: Chew Terr
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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #43 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:24 pm 
Gosei
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Not for mic:
Araban:...yeah. I've done those problems plenty of times, but somehow in this game it just fell inot a gaping blind spot. Well, that's the purpose of games like this. Mistake become really obvious if they're not pointed out before you make them, and next time I will NOT miss the tesuji. If mic catches it, I'll resign and challenge him again. This was fun, if a bit embarassing =D Obviously the corner became unwinnable at one point or another, so I'm working on reading what I could/should have done instead. Not at all good at 3-4 joseki... yet.

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #44 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Chew Terr wrote:
Not for mic:
Araban:...yeah. I've done those problems plenty of times, but somehow in this game it just fell inot a gaping blind spot. Well, that's the purpose of games like this. Mistake become really obvious if they're not pointed out before you make them, and next time I will NOT miss the tesuji. If mic catches it, I'll resign and challenge him again. This was fun, if a bit embarassing =D Obviously the corner became unwinnable at one point or another, so I'm working on reading what I could/should have done instead. Not at all good at 3-4 joseki... yet.


Still not for mic I suppose:

Even if mic finds the tesuji, White is not completely crushed in the corner, it can be salvaged to an inferior but not terrible result. You can do what you want of course, but it's still anyone's game at our level.

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #45 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:42 pm 
Gosei
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Not for mic, I guess, for a few moves...

Is this the sequence you guys are talking about, or is there something better for black?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14 B14 Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O 4 X 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's not good for white but definitely not a resigning type situation yet.

If all these "not for mic" posts don't clue him in that there's a good move, I don't know what will!!

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #46 Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:51 am 
Tengen
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Not for mic, I guess, for a few moves...

Is this the sequence you guys are talking about, or is there something better for black?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14 B14 Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O 4 X 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's not good for white but definitely not a resigning type situation yet.

If all these "not for mic" posts don't clue him in that there's a good move, I don't know what will!!


18 at tenuki makes it quite a bit worse for White :P

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #47 Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:24 am 
Gosei
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topazg wrote:
18 at tenuki makes it quite a bit worse for White :P

I guess my internal liberty counting module was off by one, hehe. Usually it's off in the other direction.

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #48 Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:13 am 
Honinbo

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Not for anybody.

Just kidding. ;)

Not for the players.

topazg wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Not for mic, I guess, for a few moves...

Is this the sequence you guys are talking about, or is there something better for black?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14 B14 Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O 4 X 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's not good for white but definitely not a resigning type situation yet.

If all these "not for mic" posts don't clue him in that there's a good move, I don't know what will!!


18 at tenuki makes it quite a bit worse for White :P


I agree. Considering Black's thickness, those two stones are almost a total loss. It's almost as bad as losing two moves. IOW, worse than giving two stones.

I would not resign at this level, at this stage of the game, but I sure would play catch-up. :)

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #49 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:27 am 
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Hi,

@ChewTerr: A honest "Sorry for my late reply". We currently have friends visiting and I had not time to really think about my next move.

@all: please tell me when I can read all the hidden comments :) I so curious :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm13 W13 Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Attached is the analysis of the moves I thought about. Probably a bit too many "white-black-white-black" where I was too biased, but at least you can see what I was thinking about :)

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
GN[W13 Prisoners: B=0, W=0]DT[2010-05-24]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]CR[eb]AW[eb][bc][ed][fd][ce][de][pp]AB[dc][dd][gd][pd][ee][fe][ch][dp]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

W13 Prisoners: B=0, W=0]PL[B]
;CR[eb]LB[db:C][fb:D][ec:A][fc:B]C[A and B look both interesting, let's see...
but both do not really work ... (for black ;))

Getting desparate I looked at moves which I probably would have never read in my game (because I can not read as deep without an SGF editor), e.g C and D.

D looks nice, can not find any direct refutations, so I play it.


Side note: probably much too many pointless variations...]
(;B[ec]
;W[fc]
(;B[gc]
;W[fb]
;B[db]
;W[gb]
;B[hb]LB[hc:B][ge:A]C[looks better, but there are cuts at A and B.

The A cut gives white a bit of influence but he loses the corner, I think its ok this way.]
;W[ge]
(;B[hc]
;W[gf]
(;B[fg]
;W[ff]
;B[ef]
(;W[df]
;B[eg])
(;W[eg]
;B[df]
(;W[dg]
;B[cf]
;W[cg]
;B[bf]
;W[bg]
;B[be]
;W[cd]
;B[bd]
;W[cc]
;B[cb]
(;W[fh]LB[jc:B][ch:A]C[Looks kind of equal:

A is under severe attack
but teh area around B is influenced by blacks thickness])
(;W[bb]
;B[ba]
;W[da]))
(;W[cf]
;B[dg])))
(;B[ef]
;W[eg]
;B[df]
;W[dg]
;B[cf]
;W[cg]
;B[bf]
;W[bg]
;B[bd]
;W[ff]
;B[be]C[...more or less the same result...]))
(;B[he]
;W[gf]LB[hc:A]C[Leaves some bad aij at A]))
(;B[fb]
;W[gc]
;B[hc]
;W[gb]C[...does not work.
]))
(;B[fc]
;W[ec]
(;B[db]C[This side does not work, due to the Ko involved...]
(;W[fb]
;B[gb]
;W[gc]
;B[hc]
;W[hb])
(;W[gc]
;B[gb]
;W[fb]
;B[hc]
;W[hb]))
(;B[fb]
(;W[db]C[Ouch])
(;W[gc]
;B[db])))
(;B[db]
(;W[gc]
;B[fc]
(;W[ec]
;B[fb])
(;W[fb]
;B[ec]))
(;W[fb]
(;B[gb]
;W[gc]
;B[fc]
;W[ec]
;B[hc]
;W[hb]
;B[fc]C[Ko :(])
(;B[ec]
;W[fc]
;B[gb]
;W[gc]
;B[hc]C[:(])))
(;B[fb]
(;W[ec]
;B[db]
;W[fc]
;B[gc]
;W[gb]
;B[ea])
(;W[db]
;B[ec])
(;W[fc]
;B[gc]
;W[ec]
;B[db])))[/sgf-full]

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #50 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:38 am 
Gosei
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No problem about taking your time, that's what Malkovich is about. And yes, now you can read those replies. You found the fatal flaw in my plan that was obvious to everybody besides me =D. That is one tesuji I'm going to start seeing, thanks to this game. I'll leave it to you, Mic... do you think I should resign after botching the corner, or should I keep going and see what happens? If I resign, I'd be up for another (this format is educational) or I'd certainly be willing to try the uphill battle, if it'd still be fun for you.

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #51 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:19 am 
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Hi Chew Terr,

(out of curiosity, you should explain the origin of your name, maybe we should start a separate thread about it).

Chew Terr wrote:
No problem about taking your time, that's what Malkovich is about. And yes, now you can read those replies. You found the fatal flaw in my plan that was obvious to everybody besides me =D.

I also did not see this, if you look at my variations before your response :) And to be honest, I'd never have found this move in a normal game because the obvious responses work against me only a lot of moves; the variations in the embedded sgf became quite long before I realized they did not work.

Quote:
That is one tesuji I'm going to start seeing, thanks to this game. I'll leave it to you, Mic... do you think I should resign after botching the corner, or should I keep going and see what happens? If I resign, I'd be up for another (this format is educational) or I'd certainly be willing to try the uphill battle, if it'd still be fun for you.

In my opinion we should start another because after I have more or less three corners it should be easy to keep the advantage, since reading your extensive comments makes it easy to play kind of defensive now. And from an egoistical point of view I'd like to learn more Fuseki and the comments help. But if you or some of our fellow readers have a good argument for continuing, I'm in for it, too. Otherwise, I'd like to thank you for this game and you and all other posters for the extensive comments, which were very educational


Cheers,
Mic

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #52 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:38 am 
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I'll make a name thread, I think, because I'm curious about other people(possible apostrophe)s names.

I resign.

Sure, let's just start a new game. While there's some chance I could come back, it would be extra hard in this format and it might just be me banging my head against a wall. I know I tend to resign too early, but this game's just meant to be educational. So we'll start a new one. Same settings okay with you?

Mic, thank you for the game. Though embarassing, it was certainly educational. I learned things about this corner joseki, as well as having that tesuji etched into my brain (I hope). I enjoyed it, and look forwards to playing you more.

Observers, thank you very much for your patient commentary. It really does help.

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #53 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:44 am 
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Good game, folks. About resigning, I think you shouldn't resign if you think that you have a chance. Of course it's your choice at any time. Others may have different opinions about this, though. In any case, good game!

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #54 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:01 pm 
Gosei
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Given the format, I think resigning is probably appropriate as the chance of a comeback is probably remote. I wouldn't resign a club game just yet. :)

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #55 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Chew Terr wrote:
Mic, thank you for the game. Though embarassing, it was certainly educational. I learned things about this corner joseki, as well as having that tesuji etched into my brain (I hope). I enjoyed it, and look forwards to playing you more.

Yes, again, I wanted to thank you. About the tesuji. I think I'll never forget it again. Can't remember when I have looked at one position for such a long time :D

Cheers,
Mic

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #56 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:03 pm 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
If all these "not for mic" posts don't clue him in that there's a good move, I don't know what will!!

What made me realize that there is a good move was the fact that all my "standard" moves were devastating for me and I was franatically trying to find something that worked :)

- Mic

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #57 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:05 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
I would not resign at this level, at this stage of the game, but I sure would play catch-up. :)[/hide]

Playing catch-up is quite difficult in a game where you explain your catch-up strategy to your opponent, too :D

- Mic

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 Post subject: Re: (Open) Malkovich Game: mic vs. Chew Terr
Post #58 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:26 pm 
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If there's one comment I will make, I think the format probably means even games are more useful, both because the handicap is naturally reduced and also because it's a more "natural" fuseki that way.

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