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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #41 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:54 pm 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't see a lot of options. If he peeps, I think I have to give up the two stones and see what I can get.

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #42 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:37 am 
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I become worried about my running group... The right side is also tempting... I can't anymore pursue the white group g8, so if I don't profit now, I did something wrong. Standard c7 feels timid and allows white to sacrifice two stones and connect. Connection to the left must be expensive :) So I'll try to get more.
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[go]$$Bcm36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #43 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:39 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . 1 . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #44 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't understand white's last move, I would play this, Seems like B gets at least the two stones after all ?

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Post #45 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:06 pm 
Honinbo
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odoacre,
odoacre wrote:
I don't understand white's last move, I would play this, Seems like B gets at least the two stones after all ?
odoacre, what's your continuation after :w2: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O X . O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------[/go]

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Post #46 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:40 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
odoacre,
odoacre wrote:
I don't understand white's last move, I would play this, Seems like B gets at least the two stones after all ?
odoacre, what's your continuation after :w2: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O X . O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 O , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . X 1 2 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 3 O X . O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------[/go]


I thought this, but maybe it's silly, giving up two stones to take two, OTOH, hey, it's sente :D

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #47 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:21 am 
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Universal go server handle: opex
Wow... Amazing move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm38 Sente, but small
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 C X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bm38 Fail
$$ | . . O 8 . . . . . , - | . . O , . . . . . ,
$$ | . 3 5 6 . . . . . . - | . 4 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O 4 X 7 . O . . . - | . O 3 X . . O . . .
$$ | . 1 2 O X . O X X . - | . 1 2 O X . O X X .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X - | . 5 O X X . O O . X
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . - | . 6 O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X - | . . X X . X . O . X
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . - | . . . . . X O . X .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . - | . . . . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . - | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bm38 Seems ok
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , - | . . O , . . . . . ,
$$ | . 1 2 7 . . . . . . - | . 1 3 4 7 . . . . .
$$ | . O 5 X 6 . O . . . - | . O 2 X . . O . . .
$$ | . 3 4 O X . O X X . - | . 6 5 O X . O X X .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X - | . . O X X . O O . X
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . - | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X - | . . X X . X . O . X
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . - | . . . . . X O . X .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . - | . . . . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . - | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------------[/go]


Next day thoughts
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[go]$$Bm38 Do I really need that exchange?
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , - | . . O , . . . . . ,
$$ | . 1 2 . . . . . . . - | . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . O 4 X . . O . . . - | . O . X . . O . . .
$$ | . 3 5 O X . O X X . - | . 1 3 O X . O X X .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X - | . . O X X . O O . X
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . - | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X - | . . X X . X . O . X
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . - | . . . . . X O . X .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . - | . . . . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . - | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm38 Not really fails. Can white escape after black a?
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . b . 3 . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Variations get quite hairy.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #48 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:53 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm38
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Go is order of moves. When I saw this move, I actually stared for a bit, trying to realize why I'd decided not to play :w37: and why the game move is ok.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm37 Bad
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm37 Fine
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 4 X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 3 O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #49 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:13 am 
Lives with ko
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Universal go server handle: opex
Actually, this :b40: may fail:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O 2 X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm43
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . 5 4 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 6 3 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X 9 7 O 1 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 1 O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O O O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm63
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X 2 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X 1 5 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X X 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O O O O 3 4 . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I looked at many variations, and they are quite difficult to read. Maybe best play results in white escaping. So one mistake from me, and white escapes for sure, with me losing a cutting group. Dangerous.

But what about this move?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #50 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:37 am 
Gosei
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@opex

You showed lots of moves for the move you didn't like, but nothing for the move you chose...

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #51 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:43 am 
Lives with ko
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emeraldemon,
Not much to show yet, the basic idea is this miai: either I try to grab the left, or I try to seal the running group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . a . . 1 . . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm waiting for white's response: will Hyperpape be able to frighten me by playing aggressively around b and threatening to kill my running group in the center?

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #52 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:20 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . c a . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O b X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This was a nice forcing move from him. As far as my response goes, I had a hard time evaluating a, b and c. I think b leaves an obnoxious point at d, so that was out. But a and c almost feel like a coin flip.

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #53 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am 
Lives with ko
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Teach me if it is an overplay
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm42
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject:
Post #54 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:05 pm 
Honinbo
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Hyperpape,
hyperpape wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm40
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . d . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . O b X . . O . . . .
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . .
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X .
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
I think b leaves an obnoxious point at d, so that was out.
Could you show what's so obnoxious about (d)?

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #55 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:13 pm 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm42
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I do not think this ends well. My only hope is that I might stand a chance in a complicated fight. But we're close to the point where this can be simply and easily killed.

My last couple moves were lazy. I decided that I had to save the left side group. In terms of positional judgment, that might be true: give him that group, and I'm terribly far behind. So I more or less short-circuited thinking about the center group. But just because it's necessary, doesn't mean it's possible, and I should have considered how the attack on my center group would play out before it happened.

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #56 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:24 am 
Lives with ko
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Next couple of moves will be forced. I can seal the group, and the question is whether I can save two cutting groups. I don't think Hyperpape will allow me to have only one cutting group. Usually it's recommended to avoid fighting stronger players. But if I don't fight, it'll be inconsistent with previous moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm44
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . 1 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #57 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:53 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm44
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . 2 1 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #58 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:15 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 201
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Was liked: 5
KGS: 2k
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Universal go server handle: opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm46
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X 1 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #59 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:18 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
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GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm46
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O X 2 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X 1 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #170 Hyperpape vs. Opex
Post #60 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:25 am 
Lives with ko
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The only move?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . X . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . X . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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