Life In 19x19 :: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

The Intrepid wrote:

Edit:Wait, what is Black doing? :shock:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . 6 3 1 X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . 7 5 2 O 4 X . . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black wins this caputing race, does he not?

Game line is different now.

I guess something like that could happen, with :w50:

connecting and maybe some other :w48:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm146 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 . 6 . a O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X 4 X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . 1 X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X 3 . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X 2 . . b . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . d X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , c . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Fighting for life at a to d.

With this line the top looks dead to me the group below can connect or make two eyes

This game's exciting! ... and to think opex was almost ready to throw in the towel at one point. Never give up, never surrender!

There is a problem for Black here. Black intends to cut White if White tenukis. However, cutting takes away liberties from his own group on the right, potentially leading to a huge ko fight:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X 3 O 4 O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 2 1 X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black responds to this move, then White lived in sente, letting him come back to defend his group on the left. In other words, this would mean that White tenukied and got away with it, absent consequence. If Black does not respond to :w4:

, on the other hand, White will begin the ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm6 tenuki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X X O O O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X C X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . O X O 2 O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think Black can fight this ko. Therefore, this option is no good for Black, either ... and that's assuming White has to play :w4:

and can't tenuki again at that point.

In any case, Black suddenly seems to be in great deal of trouble. The blunder on move 145 may well come to cost Black the game.

The Intrepid wrote:

Edit:White might consider to play the following move, which completely cuts Black group off while defending the cutting point at "a":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O a O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . 1 X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was looking at this too, but with :w1:

one space to the left. White would still have miai to connect after blocking below A if black tries to wedge in, either capturing black's wedging stone or the other stone in a very short ladder. On reflection, though, that doesn't work after black extends to your :w1:

. With this, though, things get complicated after black tries to cut the keima. Lots of ko threats for the left, and black doesn't have time to both eliminate the ko and the cut/connection by white.

Looking back, I think black should just have connected at 133 and then fought it out on the left without having to worry about his main group. I've copied that position below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm132 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . 1 . . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

125 as well (marked) did not really pressure any of white's groups and allowed white the marked move to eliminate his group worries and allow a more severe attack, though I think black was still ahead. If anything, I'd be tempted to have played it a line deeper, to make it easier to live underneath if it is cut off.

Now that I look at the position, perhaps White should not allow Black to play :b1:

, so maybe White should play there himself:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Alternatively, White may consider to deny Black an eye on top, via the following move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, then Black might threaten to connect:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . , 2 . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess I need to try to read a bit deeper into the position.

Once in eternity i could write a more malkovitchish post

His move threatens the cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X 3 O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 2 1 X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . |[/go]

But it doesn't seem to be sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm5 elsewhere $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 5 . O . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O 4 O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O 2 3 O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X X O 1 O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm5 elsewhere $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 7 5 O . 8 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O 6 O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X 1 O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O 2 4 O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X X O 3 O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . |[/go]

But it reveals that black can play c in sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm148 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . b . . . c . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . d X . X X O . X . . | $$ | . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . 2 a . X . O X O . O . O X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . | $$ | . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O | $$ | . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And he has moves like :w48:

and b to search life locally, a to connect, so it seems impossible to kill him here. Thus i'd like to start grabbing territory, but an obvious move :w48:

doesn't quite work: it doesn't close the side since :b49:

forces me to connect d and pokes into the territory. So letting him connect doesn't seem good. Therefore, i choose to deny him a, so that i'm connected and more or less safe, and he needs to find ways to live locally. Of course, his group will try to break out here and there... I was thinking about ways to prevent these break-outs while allowing him to connect, but i didn't find anything satisfactory: he still has ways to enter my territory. So at last it seems i'll still be behind...

Author:	DJLLAP [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm144 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 1 2 X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] This is why I think his last move was a mistake. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm142 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . 3 X O . X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 1 2 X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] This is worse for My eyespace, and ends in Sente

Author:	The Intrepid [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
opex wrote: If not this move then which? Well, this move does not work so it was better to leave it as a ko threat. White's only chance left is to do massive damage to Black's territory on the bottom--by living there or by killing the bottom-left corner. Therefore, White should aim at the cut at "a." I did not read here, but perhaps White can start with some move in the marked area: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm144 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . ? ? X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X a . ? ? ? ? . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Edit: Wait, what is Black doing? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . 6 3 1 X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . 7 5 2 O 4 X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Black wins this caputing race, does he not? Edit2: This move for White would not work either: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . 3 O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . 2 1 O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . X X X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . X O O O X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . 4 O X 6 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . 5 O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	Shinkenjoe [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
The Intrepid wrote: Edit:Wait, what is Black doing? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . 6 3 1 X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . 7 5 2 O 4 X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Black wins this caputing race, does he not? Game line is different now. I guess something like that could happen, with connecting and maybe some other Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm146 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 7 . 6 . a O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X 4 X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X 3 . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 2 . . b . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . d X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , c . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Fighting for life at a to d. With this line the top looks dead to me the group below can connect or make two eyes

Author:	Shinkenjoe [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm146 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 X O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 3 . . 2 . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X 4 X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . d X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , c . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I rather think he will try to save the whole group. Looks promising At d Black will get an eye and maybe at top. edit: oh Black must connect first at Hmmm

Author:	opex [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm146 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 C O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Forced. I think it's better than d14: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wcm146 Miai for an eye (not a big matter though, he can still connect) $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . b . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X 2 X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . X a . X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 O X X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \|[/go]`

Life In 19x19 http://lifein19x19.com/

#179 - DJLLAP vs opex http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6636	Page 11 of 12

Author:	DJLLAP [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm146 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 C O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X 2 . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I am trusting that this should be sente since now I can cut his group in half.

Author:	The Intrepid [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
This game's exciting! ... and to think opex was almost ready to throw in the towel at one point. Never give up, never surrender! There is a problem for Black here. Black intends to cut White if White tenukis. However, cutting takes away liberties from his own group on the right, potentially leading to a huge ko fight: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 3 O 4 O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . 2 1 X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If Black responds to this move, then White lived in sente, letting him come back to defend his group on the left. In other words, this would mean that White tenukied and got away with it, absent consequence. If Black does not respond to , on the other hand, White will begin the ko: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm6 tenuki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X X O O O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . O X X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X 1 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X C X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O 2 O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I don't think Black can fight this ko. Therefore, this option is no good for Black, either ... and that's assuming White has to play and can't tenuki again at that point. In any case, Black suddenly seems to be in great deal of trouble. The blunder on move 145 may well come to cost Black the game. Edit: White might consider to play the following move, which completely cuts Black group off while defending the cutting point at "a": Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O a O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . 1 X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	skydyr [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
The Intrepid wrote: Edit:White might consider to play the following move, which completely cuts Black group off while defending the cutting point at "a": Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O a O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . 1 X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I was looking at this too, but with one space to the left. White would still have miai to connect after blocking below A if black tries to wedge in, either capturing black's wedging stone or the other stone in a very short ladder. On reflection, though, that doesn't work after black extends to your . With this, though, things get complicated after black tries to cut the keima. Lots of ko threats for the left, and black doesn't have time to both eliminate the ko and the cut/connection by white. Looking back, I think black should just have connected at 133 and then fought it out on the left without having to worry about his main group. I've copied that position below. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm132 Captures: b - 1, w - 7. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . W . . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . 2 X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . B . 1 . . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] 125 as well (marked) did not really pressure any of white's groups and allowed white the marked move to eliminate his group worries and allow a more severe attack, though I think black was still ahead. If anything, I'd be tempted to have played it a line deeper, to make it easier to live underneath if it is cut off.

Author:	The Intrepid [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
skydyr wrote: On reflection, though, that doesn't work after black extends to your . Black may also consider this move, which threatens to live with "b". Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X b . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X 2 O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , 1 . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	The Intrepid [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Now that I look at the position, perhaps White should not allow Black to play , so maybe White should play there himself: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Alternatively, White may consider to deny Black an eye on top, via the following move: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . 1 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] However, then Black might threaten to connect: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , 2 . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I guess I need to try to read a bit deeper into the position.

Author:	Shinkenjoe [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
The Intrepid wrote: This game's exciting! ... and to think opex was almost ready to throw in the towel at one point. Never give up, never surrender! There is a problem for Black here. Black intends to cut White if White tenukis. However, cutting takes away liberties from his own group on the right, potentially leading to a huge ko fight: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O a . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 3 O 4 O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . 2 1 X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] did you also have (a) Q15 in mind ? So answering the cut looks urgent and your edit - suggested looks promising, but i think black made it. edit: oops i misinterpreted your post. It's just that black*s cut ends gote.

Author:	skydyr [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Shinkenjoe wrote: oops i misinterpreted your post. It's just that black*s cut ends gote. Well, black can choose sente in exchange for the ko. Whether that's a good idea or not is a different story.

Author:	opex [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm148 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , 1 . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Once in eternity i could write a more malkovitchish post His move threatens the cut: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bcm1 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 3 O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . 2 1 X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \|[/go]` But it doesn't seem to be sente: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bcm5 elsewhere $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . 5 . O . 6 . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O 4 O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O 2 3 O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X X O 1 O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . O X X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \|[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bcm5 elsewhere $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . 7 5 O . 8 . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O 6 O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X 1 O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O 2 4 O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X X O 3 O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . O X X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \|[/go]` But it reveals that black can play c in sente: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm148 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . b . . . c . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . d X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 1 X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 a . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] And he has moves like and b to search life locally, a to connect, so it seems impossible to kill him here. Thus i'd like to start grabbing territory, but an obvious move doesn't quite work: it doesn't close the side since forces me to connect d and pokes into the territory. So letting him connect doesn't seem good. Therefore, i choose to deny him a, so that i'm connected and more or less safe, and he needs to find ways to live locally. Of course, his group will try to break out here and there... I was thinking about ways to prevent these break-outs while allowing him to connect, but i didn't find anything satisfactory: he still has ways to enter my territory. So at last it seems i'll still be behind...

Author:	jts [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
skydyr wrote: Shinkenjoe wrote: oops i misinterpreted your post. It's just that blacks cut ends gote. Well, black can choose sente in exchange for the ko. Whether that's a good idea or not is a different story. I think B can even fight a ko to get W to connect first*, while he has plenty of liberties, and then (once W, inevitably, connects) then put the cut into action.

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Author:	DJLLAP [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm148 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 2 X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , 1 . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] What a flurry of comments! I am aiming to threaten two things here. Capture those 2 stones, or make an eye on the side. I am pretty sure I can't be killed here, but if I am not careful, I might be in trouble.

Author:	The Intrepid [ Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Black's move looks to be a mistake. Now White can play the following eye-destroying move in sente: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \|[/go] Moreover, Black is probably misreading here as far as whether his move threatens to capture the two White stones or not: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . 2 1 . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \|[/go] This is not the time to play inaccurately. Black needs to focus, realize the grave danger he's in, and steel himself for rugged resistance.

Author:	opex [ Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm150 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I hope it's sente. If he ignores to play something like b9 and i proceed to cut him in two, complications arise, so i'm slightly worried. On the other hand, isn't i the one to be seeking complications?

Author:	DJLLAP [ Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm150 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X 1 . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X 2 X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	opex [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm152 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X O . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X X X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . 1 . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] What a quick reply.. It was a no-brainer for him. I hope my move isn't a not-enough-brainer So, he connected, he should play safe. How could i use this attitude... I like to be safe too. If he cuts me and then goes here, i might have troubles, so i opt to protect my skirt and a little territory. Let's look at his eyes now.

Author:	DJLLAP [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm152 Captures: b - 1, w - 8. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . X . X O . O X X . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X . X . O . O O X . , X . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X O . . O X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . O . O X O X X . . . \| $$ \| . . O X O . . . . . X . X X O . X . . \| $$ \| . . O X X X X . O O X X X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X X . O O . O X X O X O O O O . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . X . O X O . O . O X . O . \| $$ \| . 1 . O . . . . X O O O O O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . X . X X X X X O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . . . . . O X O X . . O O \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . X O . O X X . . O . \| $$ \| . O . . O O . . . . . . O X . O O . O \| $$ \| . X O O . X X . . , X . X O O O . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . X O X X O . O \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O X \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]