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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #81 Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:25 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 B:1, W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . O 6 . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There is not much that White can do. I think that I will look how this corner plays out and then think about resigning. How does resigning work in Zengo, anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #82 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:31 pm 
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KGS: Nikolas73
DGS: Nikolas73
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 B:1, W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . O O 7 . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move was a little puzzling, but I believe :b67: is the correct response, locally. I can only think that Black wanted to accompish something like this, where both A and B are threatened:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 B:1, W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . a |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . O 6 8 . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O . . 7 X b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What I expect next (or something similar):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 B:1, W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . O O 7 . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O . . 8 X 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If White cuts around S5 at some point (perhaps instead of :w68: Black should have no trouble defending, because White will need to connect after Black defends at S6.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #83 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:03 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 B:1, W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O . . 8 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There are a couple elementary joseki for this invasion. This one lets black connect out but gives up less of the corner and ends in sente for white. The other choices seal black in and let him make life in the corner, giving white influence on the outside. But because black is both alive and very strong on the outside, there isn't any value in cutting and giving up that much of the corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #84 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:58 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 B:1, W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am now unsure whether :b67: was a bit slack and should have gone to :w68: instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . 0 X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . 6 7 O O 4 . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . O . . O 5 9 1 X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, Black has enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #85 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:29 pm 
Gosei
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I think white is at least 25 points behind and probably ought to resign. You guys agree?

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #86 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:43 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
I think white is at least 25 points behind and probably ought to resign. Do you agree?


I count White definitely behind, although I think that it is a bit less than 25 points, rather about 10-15, but Black is also so thick that I would regard it as very difficult for White to catch up.

I would consent to a resignation here.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #87 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:05 am 
Gosei
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@Nikolas: You OK with moving on to a review?

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #88 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:37 am 
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KGS: Nikolas73
DGS: Nikolas73
Sorry, I was ill for a few days. Yes, go ahead - in games at my level I might continue 10-20 moves more as anything can happen, but I doubt Black will make any serious mistakes in this game.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Post #89 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:39 pm 
Gosei
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Here are my thoughts on the first 20 moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . 8 . . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When I played :b5: I expected :b7:, and that's what Nikolas played. On move 6, Harleqin commented that the left side was less interesting because of the low position of :w6:. I think it's true that the large enclosure facing the top makes an extension on that side makes an extension for white seem pretty smallish on the left side. But it's a very nice extension for black (and therefore a nice one for white to prevent). So it still seems like a really big point to me. Anyone else have an opinion?

Both Harleqin and I thought :w10: was a mistake. At my level, I just sorta "know" it's bad, but it's hard for me to prove it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 0 . |
$$ | . . X , 5 . . . . , . . . . . 1 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b11:- :b15: happened exactly as I expected and I think black had an advantage by this point. Then comes white's invasion... I'd like to see some stronger players comment on that.

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