Life In 19x19 :: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG

It is a shame there were only 10 participants. I think the calendar is a little too full at the moment, with the EGC, then SAWMG qualifier, then WMSG. If you want to play it all, you effectively have to stay in Bonn/Lille for up to five weeks.

BTW, Robert, do you know why there is (virtually) no representation from Germany at the WMSG?

Robert, do you know why there is (virtually) no representation from Germany at the WMSG?

Who has been eligible to participate in that qualifier?

Lukas Kraemer is not in the rating list, at least not among the top 54 players.

Sport Accord preliminary: only 200 euro per person
Tickets&hotel must be paid by players

Sport Accord Main Event in China: 500 euro, plus free ticket, plus free hotel.

So, if you win the representation right to SAWMG, the minimum prize money would be USD 1,500. And if you do half-way decent, you may get USD 3,000. That should cover your prelim cost and then some, no? Unless, of course, you don't think you will win the prelim.

Thx, but my info is correct. EGF decided to give players 500 Euro only and use the rest of money for preliminary stage. What do you think about this decision? As a result top European players, except Ilya Shikshin decided to stay home.

"I feel this setup is unacceptable. You keep expecting us to lose money and accept very low money
prizes instead of finding a way to select players that doesn't cost money"
from the letter of Catalin Taranu to EGF.

Personally I feel it was much better to play preliminary online, or send players by rating

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:41 am ]
Post subject:	Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Ilja Shikshin, Csaba Mero and Jan Hora qualified as the European representatives to the SportAccord World Mind Games in Beijing later this year. http://www.wmsg2012.org/results/saqualifier

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Who has been eligible to participate in that qualifier? 5 rounds, then Wins, SOS is of insufficient quality in relation to the importance of the seeding tournament.

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
As far as I know, participation was based on invitation of top European players, and Zeno van Ditzhuijzen was added at the last minute to make an even number of players (I think after Gilles van Eeden cancelled). Who were invited exactly, I do not know.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Thank you. Now I wonder: how were those 9 top invited selected? I can guess, but...

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
It is a shame there were only 10 participants. I think the calendar is a little too full at the moment, with the EGC, then SAWMG qualifier, then WMSG. If you want to play it all, you effectively have to stay in Bonn/Lille for up to five weeks. BTW, Robert, do you know why there is (virtually) no representation from Germany at the WMSG?

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Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6478	Page 1 of 2

Author:	shapenaji [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
HermanHiddema wrote: It is a shame there were only 10 participants. I think the calendar is a little too full at the moment, with the EGC, then SAWMG qualifier, then WMSG. If you want to play it all, you effectively have to stay in Bonn/Lille for up to five weeks. BTW, Robert, do you know why there is (virtually) no representation from Germany at the WMSG? Germany is pretty careful about not entering France these days... Seriously though, that's surprising that folks IN Europe aren't sending delegations...

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
HermanHiddema wrote: Robert, do you know why there is (virtually) no representation from Germany at the WMSG? 1) The WMSG organisation took too long to inform the countries about their right to send players. 2) The executive of the German Go Association was too busy with the congress organisation. Only a week(!) before the congress, I was asked whether I would wish to participate. 3) Apparently the German Go Association loses money by having held the congress. So there was no convincing promise of financial support for at least a few players. 4) E.g., I ended up with the option to play in up to three tournaments but the shortness of planning, travel expenses (for a few days probably more than for 2 weeks congress), (3), still unclear tournament system (in particular, it is still unclear whether I might play in the top groups) and so relatively low motivation to win games, the decreased WMSG status due to prohibited participation of professionals, and personal reasons have been my reasons not to participate.

Author:	breakfast [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
RobertJasiek wrote: Who has been eligible to participate in that qualifier? Here is the list of invited players: 1 Shikshin Ilja 2748 2748 Russia 7d 1 2 Taranu Catalin 2735 2738 Romania 7d/5p 2 3 Dinerstein Alexandr 2694 2728 Russia 7d/3p 3 4 Kachanovskyi Artem 2676 2693 Ukraine 7d 4 5 Pop Cristian 2653 2673 Romania 7d 5 6 Burzo Cornel 2626 2656 Romania 6d 7 Silt Ondrej 2650 2650 Czechia 6d 6 8 Balogh Pal 2609 2645 Hungary 6d 7 9 Mero Csaba 2629 2640 Hungary 6d 8 10 Zeijst Rob_van 2627 2627 Netherlands 7d 9 11 Simara Jan 2608 2608 Czechia 6d 10 12 Zatonskikh Anton 2606 2606 Russia 7d 13 Derbarre Thomas 2604 2606 France 6d 11 14 Bajenaru Dragos 2583 2606 Romania 6d 15 Teuber Benjamin 2600 2600 Germany 6d 12 16 Florescu Ion 2570 2594 Romania 6d 17 Lisy Pavol 2564 2594 Slovakia 5d 13 18 Tormanen Antti 2589 2592 Finland 6d 14 19 van Eeden Gilles 2525 2590 Netherlands 6d 15 20 Mitic Dusan 2552 2589 Serbia 6d 16 21 Hora Jan 2565 2585 Czechia 6d 22 Kuin Merlijn 2553 2585 Netherlands 6d 23 Dickhut Franz-Josef 2584 2584 Germany 6d 24 Podpera Lukas 2579 2583 Czechia 5d 25 Jabarin Ali 2579 2579 Israel 6d 26 Surin Dmitrij 2568 2579 Russia 6d 27 Kravets Andrii 2578 2578 Ukraine 5d 28 Gerlach Christoph 2575 2575 Germany 6d 29 Macfadyen Matthew 2501 2573 UK 6d 30 Bohatskyi Dmytro 2562 2569 Ukraine 6d 31 Blomback Fredrik 2550 2566 Sweden 6d 32 Mezhov Oleg 2556 2556 Russia 6d 33 Dimitriev Ruslan 2521 2551 Russia 6d 34 Brouwer Peter 2528 2548 Netherlands 6d 35 Mitic Nikola 2543 2546 Serbia 5d 36 Prokop Jan 2512 2546 Czechia 5d 37 Deaconu Lucian 2543 2543 Romania 5d 38 Zhurakovskyi Bohdan 2538 2538 Ukraine 5d 39 Danek Vladimir 2501 2537 Czechia 5d 40 Drouot Paul 2531 2536 France 5d 41 Lin Viktor 2520 2534 Austria 5d 42 Groenen Geert 2510 2533 Netherlands 6d 43 Janssen Frank 2530 2530 Netherlands 6d 44 Colmez Pierre 2512 2528 France 5d 45 Lazarev Alexej 2490 2527 Russia 6d 46 Serban Mihai 2495 2519 Romania 5d 47 Surma Mateusz 2518 2518 Poland 5d 48 Savolainen Javier-Aleksi 2477 2517 Finland 5d 49 Sankin Timur 2507 2516 Russia 5d 50 Soldan Leszek 2484 2515 Poland 5d 51 Campagnie Remi 2512 2512 France 5d 52 Nijhuis Emil 2485 2512 Netherlands 6d 53 Eijkhout Michiel 2487 2504 Netherlands 6d 54 Seailles Jeff 2503 2503 France 5d 1st criteria best max. EGF rating since 1st June 2011 till 31st May 2012 2nd criteria better current rating in case of 1st critera is the same by 31st May 2012 Because of small compensation for tickets/hotel (200 euro only) and maybe other reasons, most of invited players refused to take part. Because of 2 players max from the same country rule, Oleg Mezhov from Russia was not able to take part. But he will play in WMSG.

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
RobertJasiek wrote: Lukas Kraemer is not in the rating list, at least not among the top 54 players. Strange that he is not in the list, since his peak rating in the given period was 2510, and his current rating on June 1st was 2486, both of which are better than some players in the list.

Author:	breakfast [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Sport Accord preliminary: only 200 euro per person Tickets&hotel must be paid by players Sport Accord Main Event in China: 500 euro, plus free ticket, plus free hotel. I suggested to invite 8 players instead of 16 and give them 400 euro instead of 200, but EGF refused. So, I ignored this event. 200 euro - clearly not enough to cover flight from Moscow and hotel for 3 days

Author:	breakfast [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
"I feel this setup is unacceptable. You keep expecting us to lose money and accept very low money prizes instead of finding a way to select players that doesn't cost money" from the letter of Catalin Taranu to EGF. Personally I feel it was much better to play preliminary online, or send players by rating

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Was it necessary to play a SAWMG qualification tournament? Otherwise, e.g., the top 3 EGC players could have been sent.

Author:	breakfast [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Right, much better way. I have nothing against choosing players by EGC results

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Perhaps, to generate some money, the EGF should ask the same entry fees that the Bridge event asks at the WMSG.

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Author:	Hsiang [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
breakfast wrote: Sport Accord preliminary: only 200 euro per person Tickets&hotel must be paid by players Sport Accord Main Event in China: 500 euro, plus free ticket, plus free hotel. Only partially correct information. The preliminary is an EGF event, it has nothing to do with SportAccord, so I cannot comment. But for the SportAccord World Mind Games, we will cover travel, lodging, and food. In addition (using men as example), each man entry is guaranteed USD 1,000 (finish 13-16, at the bottom) or USD 2,000 (next group, 9-12) and so on. In addition, the three EGF reps will each get half of the pair go prize of USD 1,000 if they finish at the bottom (7, 8) or USD 2,000 in the next group (5, 6). Remember, for the pairs there are 4 western entries out of the total of 8, so it is not unfeasible to get to 5th place! So, if you win the representation right to SAWMG, the minimum prize money would be USD 1,500. And if you do half-way decent, you may get USD 3,000. That should cover your prelim cost and then some, no? Unless, of course, you don't think you will win the prelim.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
According to Stiassny, French Rules are being used. Great! (Matti Siivola chose the rules of play, after asking for my opinion.) Tiebreakers: I still do not know which are used.

Author:	breakfast [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
Hsiang wrote: So, if you win the representation right to SAWMG, the minimum prize money would be USD 1,500. And if you do half-way decent, you may get USD 3,000. That should cover your prelim cost and then some, no? Unless, of course, you don't think you will win the prelim. Thx, but my info is correct. EGF decided to give players 500 Euro only and use the rest of money for preliminary stage. What do you think about this decision? As a result top European players, except Ilya Shikshin decided to stay home.

Author:	Hsiang [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
breakfast wrote: Thx, but my info is correct. EGF decided to give players 500 Euro only and use the rest of money for preliminary stage. What do you think about this decision? As a result top European players, except Ilya Shikshin decided to stay home. I see. EGF sets its own policy, it is not for me to comment. But please check to be sure that EGF is indeed following the same policy from last year, even though the total players' take will be higher in 2012.

Author:	Javaness2 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shikshin, Mero and Hora qualify for SAWMG
breakfast wrote: "I feel this setup is unacceptable. You keep expecting us to lose money and accept very low money prizes instead of finding a way to select players that doesn't cost money" from the letter of Catalin Taranu to EGF. Personally I feel it was much better to play preliminary online, or send players by rating I would guess that the EGF decided to place the qualifier within the WMSG to help boost numbers at the event, (did they succeed?) It used to be the case that some additional event at the European Congress decided who was invited to such international events - but this policy was abandoned. It is nice to have a qualifier, but the schedules, or availability of the players must be taken into account when organising a qualifier.