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statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accounts
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=13686		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  litchee [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accounts
statistics (ASR update): KGS Go server lost nearby 6,600 accounts in 70 days ! >> Details here <<
Author:  DrStraw [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
And the point is? Please give statistics on how logins and the number of games played have dropped. That is really the only relevant information. And make sure you go back to well before the AlphaGo craze to ensure that it is not just a result of that. Otherwise you are just trying to cause panic where there need be none.
Author:  Bonobo [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
DrStraw wrote:
And the point is? [..]

The point (disclaimer: as I see it) is that the once honourable ASR has turned to spamming and click bait—which was to be expected after a notorious spammer and click-baiter seems to have taken over.

<edit>
Oh, I forgot bragging, of course. Bragging about how the ASR is rising to rule the world while every other Go place is going down, down, down.
that page wrote:
We have to see this heavy decrease also under the aspects of ASR’s progress itself.
</edit>
Author:  Gotraskhalana [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
litchee wrote:
statistics (ASR update): KGS Go server lost nearby 6,600 accounts in 70 days ! >> Details here <<


I have already commented on this. They didn't "lose" my account, they deliberately deleted it.
Author:  DrStraw [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
Gotraskhalana wrote:
litchee wrote:
statistics (ASR update): KGS Go server lost nearby 6,600 accounts in 70 days ! >> Details here <<


I have already commented on this. They didn't "lose" my account, they deliberately deleted it.


No they didn't. You did not use it for six months so it was removed. But you lost it.
Author:  quanloh [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
I noticed that ASR posted some topics and did not respond to (almost) any of the replies.
I don't feel good with such action.
Author:  skydyr [ Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
quanloh wrote:
I noticed that ASR posted some topics and did not respond to (almost) any of the replies.
I don't feel good with such action.


That's because it's spammy posting meant to draw clicks to their site so they can say that it's very active, not to foster discussion.
Author:  Uberdude [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
At least it's in this easy-to-ignore subforum (unlike on reddit)...
Author:  wineandgolover [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
Uberdude wrote:
At least it's in this easy-to-ignore subforum (unlike on reddit)...

Ah, but Reddit has a downvote option.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
If it's universally thought of as spam, blocking the OP is an option. It's not clear to me if everyone thinks it's spam, though. Normally, it'd be customary to discuss with the spammer first to give a warning, but if the OP doesn't respond to inquiries, I'm not sure it'd be that useful ;-)
Author:  daal [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
As someone who used to be involved in the ASR (I burned out because it took too much time and energy) I'd like to point out that even if you don't like some the current administrators and their outreach methods, the ASR has a lot of attractive features: serious slow games, playing with stronger/weaker players, reviewing games together afterward, playing in a league, prizes, free lectures etc.) that are all afaik still in place. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
I don't think cleaning up spam on the forum is "knocking" the ASR, even if that spam is related to the ASR. I like pizza, but I don't like spam that advertises pizza. I also don't feel strongly that these posts are spam, though, they appear somewhat borderline to me. For example, if we had a bot to pick up spam on the forum, it wouldn't surprise me if these posts were identified.

IMO, if the OP intends to use L19 as a means for advertising the ASR, a better response can be achieved by aiming for more content, and providing responses toward questions aimed at them.

The OP isn't obligated to do this, of course, but I maintain that single sentence posts with a flashy hyperlink borderline qualifies as spam.
Author:  daal [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
Kirby wrote:
The OP isn't obligated to do this, of course, but I maintain that single sentence posts with a flashy hyperlink borderline qualifies as spam.


I guess there is some similarity, but the ASR is a free service to to go community, and although they do appreciate (and run on) donations, the ASR isn't selling anything except free membership. The league needs members to function, so it makes sense to me that they are reaching out here to the go community.

Kirby wrote:
IMO, if the OP intends to use L19 as a means for advertising the ASR, a better response can be achieved by aiming for more content, and providing responses toward questions aimed at them.


Sure, this is a kind of advertising, but I don't see what is wrong with that. It's not like the folks here are not interested in free go resources. I do understand that people are irritated that the ASR people don't participate in the conversation here, but I know from experience that they have a lot of other things to do besides getting into cat fights here. For example, creating and developing content such as the lectures, keeping the players in the league happy, posting articles and content on their own website (which also has its own forum), giving out prizes etc. Spam is looking for a sucker. The ASR is just looking for more go players.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
daal wrote:
I guess there is some similarity, but the ASR is a free service to to go community, and although they do appreciate (and run on) donations, the ASR isn't selling anything except free membership. The league needs members to function, so it makes sense to me that they are reaching out here to the go community. Sure, this is a kind of advertising, but I don't see what is wrong with that.


1. I don't see it as "wrong", either. I didn't block them yet, and am merely observing that the post is borderline spam. I don't think I'm making a strong statement here.

2. I have no idea if the admins are as altruistic as you describe, but based on the lack of response, climi's description of past events, and the 1-liner posts, I don't think it's unreasonable to doubt their intentions. For example, when I click on the link they posted here, the first page has a link for donations:
Image


There is certainly some financial benefit toward getting more traffic to their site.

To be clear, I don't have anything against the ASR. I was a member a few years ago for a short period of time, in fact (though, it was run by a different person when I was a member). I appreciate the service, and like the general idea.

But the fact remains that the posts are clearly not appreciated by all L19 members (e.g. comments on reddit downvotes, references to clemi's thread, etc.).

Anyway, I don't care about this topic enough to keep arguing about it. Like I said, I appreciate the ASR as a service. I don't particularly appreciate the way in which it is currently being advertised.
Author:  skydyr [ Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
daal wrote:
Kirby wrote:
The OP isn't obligated to do this, of course, but I maintain that single sentence posts with a flashy hyperlink borderline qualifies as spam.


I guess there is some similarity, but the ASR is a free service to to go community, and although they do appreciate (and run on) donations, the ASR isn't selling anything except free membership. The league needs members to function, so it makes sense to me that they are reaching out here to the go community.

Kirby wrote:
IMO, if the OP intends to use L19 as a means for advertising the ASR, a better response can be achieved by aiming for more content, and providing responses toward questions aimed at them.


Sure, this is a kind of advertising, but I don't see what is wrong with that. It's not like the folks here are not interested in free go resources. I do understand that people are irritated that the ASR people don't participate in the conversation here, but I know from experience that they have a lot of other things to do besides getting into cat fights here. For example, creating and developing content such as the lectures, keeping the players in the league happy, posting articles and content on their own website (which also has its own forum), giving out prizes etc. Spam is looking for a sucker. The ASR is just looking for more go players.


I'd be perfectly satisfied if the actual content of the messages were cross-posted here, even including a link in the signature or something to the site. It's the 'I need you to leave the forum you're reading and look at my site to see what I have to say' attitude that strikes me as spam: it uses the popularity (such as it is) of the forum to try and draw people away without the courtesy of providing content to the forum.
Author:  climu [ Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
daal wrote:
For example, creating and developing content such as the lectures, keeping the players in the league happy, posting articles and content on their own website (which also has its own forum), giving out prizes etc. Spam is looking for a sucker. The ASR is just looking for more go players.


Hi daal,
Indeed we worked together for ASR. You did show me the ropes back in the days. Good times we had.
You are right that ASR itself is a great thing for go community.
Sadly, I have to say that one of the new ASR admins is a well know spammer on reddit who was banned from OGS ( see comments on reddit here for instance).

On top of that, they tend not to answer their own forum now. They basicly post news there.
As I already said, they even deleted my comments on ASR website and never explained me why (they don't answer email).

So yes, they are busy for sure, but I think the community part of ASR has changed at least.
Author:  daal [ Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: statistics (ASR update): loss of nearby 6,600 KGS accoun
Hi Climu,

Yeah, I understand the complaints. I just wanted to point out that the asr is a service and although it is being run by people who have been making questionable choices, it is still a good resource for go players. I was sorry to hear about how your stay there ended, but so far running the ASR has proved to be too much work for every person who has tried to do it, and presumably the current admins won't stay there forever either.

Greetings,

-d
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