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 Post subject: Game 1
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:04 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Game 1
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:23 am 
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It seems moves 52 (tenuki) and 53 (punishment) turned the game in black's favor. Then it became a lesson in how to win a won game.

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Post #3 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:57 am 
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A few statistical notes from GoGoD.

The opening up to Black 7 is fairly rare but goes back to 2010. Its last outing was in December when Joanne Missingham as Black beat O Meien in the PCK (Zhugang) Cup.

GoGoD has 7 games, and so far it's mainly been a Chinese affair. Not a single Hanguk Giwon player appears. Yi Se-tol may therefore have been trying to surprise Gu Li, and also avoid any opening preparation.

White 8 (kosumitsuke) was tried once before, by Kimu Sujun in Japan in 2011. Otherwise White has favoured making a Chinese shimari here.

Gu's White 10 was new. Shida Tatsuya had tried Q10 (right side hoshi) against Kimu Sujun.

I know I'm probably spitting in the wind, but could we be good fellows and try to avoid "jubango". It's no shorter than ten-game match (actually two Japanese syllables longer) and conveys far less information.

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 Post subject: Re: Game 1
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:25 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:

White 8 (kosumitsuke) was tried once before, by Kimu Sujun in Japan in 2011. Otherwise White has favoured making a Chinese shimari here.

What is a Chinese shimari? Does that mean C11? Sorry for my ignorance.

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 Post subject: Re: Game 1
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:32 am 
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Thank you for posting the game record !

I don't understand black 207...I would try to save the K2 group (with G1?). I must be overlooking something.

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Post #6 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:54 am 
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Great start to the jubango!

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Post #7 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:11 am 
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LuckyJim wrote:

I don't understand black 207...I would try to save the K2 group (with G1?). I must be overlooking something.


It's already safe, or rather if white captures it with h1 he can't answer black g1 to the left so loses the corner which is bigger. Also those moves black played instead were sente, and then he came back to g1 to save his lower side stones in sente and eliminate the opportunity of a trade.

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Post #8 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:22 am 
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wineandgolover wrote:
It seems moves 52 (tenuki) and 53 (punishment) turned the game in black's favor. Then it became a lesson in how to win a won game.


Yes, very interesting shape there: the n6 hane outside seemed a rather painful compromise versus the natural l6 as l8 got isolated (cut elephant jump broken shape), but Lee did it to avoid giving white sentes around k8 which would fix up the h10 thinness and thus expose the f9 thinnness (according to Myungwan Kim's commentary). But as soon as white tenukied the sharp k6 made those cutting exchanges not look so good anymore (they weakened p4). I wonder what would have happened if white continued locally, say l5 or k6. Is white really so upset if black plays something like e11 to connect on dame with weak kosumi shape?

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Post #9 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:52 pm 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
A few statistical notes from GoGoD.

The opening up to Black 7 is fairly rare but goes back to 2010. Its last outing was in December when Joanne Missingham as Black beat O Meien in the PCK (Zhugang) Cup.

GoGoD has 7 games, and so far it's mainly been a Chinese affair. Not a single Hanguk Giwon player appears. Yi Se-tol may therefore have been trying to surprise Gu Li, and also avoid any opening preparation.

White 8 (kosumitsuke) was tried once before, by Kimu Sujun in Japan in 2011. Otherwise White has favoured making a Chinese shimari here.

Gu's White 10 was new. Shida Tatsuya had tried Q10 (right side hoshi) against Kimu Sujun.

I know I'm probably spitting in the wind, but could we be good fellows and try to avoid "jubango". It's no shorter than ten-game match (actually two Japanese syllables longer) and conveys far less information.


It's silly to call this ten game match a jubango. That is a Japanese word and neither of the players is Japanese! They are certainly not playing a Japanese 10 game match :)

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Post #10 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Maybe not, but show me where either China or Korea has a strong history of playing many 10-game matches! Clearly they have stolen this idea from Japan, so why not keep the historic term.

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Post #11 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:18 pm 
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In China, 10 games match was played quite often long before 10 games match during 1930-1950 in japan.

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Post #12 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:55 pm 
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what do the sponsors call it? The video link from BadukTV: 古力李世石十番棋巅峰决战 2014年1月26日

as far as I know, 十番棋, is pronounced "jūbango" (in Japanese): from http://senseis.xmp.net/?Jubango

so far, I don't see anything wrong with calling it a Jubango.


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Post #13 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:33 pm 
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trout wrote:
In China, 10 games match was played quite often long before 10 games match during 1930-1950 in japan.


10 game match was popular in Japan way before 1930, sorry.

xed_over wrote:
what do the sponsors call it? The video link from BadukTV: 古力李世石十番棋巅峰决战 2014年1月26日

as far as I know, 十番棋, is pronounced "jūbango" (in Japanese): from http://senseis.xmp.net/?Jubango

so far, I don't see anything wrong with calling it a Jubango.


The characters are a little bit different, but yes this is basically jubango in japanese.

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Post #14 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:54 pm 
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badukJr wrote:

The characters are a little bit different, but yes this is basically jubango in japanese.

oh, of course. how careless of me. sorry.
but yes, my point is the same.

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Post #15 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:38 pm 
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gowan wrote:
It's silly to call this ten game match a jubango. That is a Japanese word and neither of the players is Japanese! They are certainly not playing a Japanese 10 game match :)

That is correct. In that case we also shouldn't call the name of the game "Go", but rather "Baduk" or "Weiqi". And certainly we shouldn't use the terms "shimari", "kosumitsuke" etc. (and a "Chinese shimari" is certainly a contradiction in itself). :grumpy: :rambo:


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 Post subject: Re: Game 1
Post #16 Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:46 am 
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10 game match as a name also has the problem that there quite probably won't be 10 games, as the match will be abandoned once one player wins 6 games. In the jubangos of old didn't they usually keep playing, though sometimes they would abandon if it was too embarrassing to get beaten down to handicap? So I propose the accurate and catchy "Lee vs Gu at least six game match". ;-)

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Post #17 Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:56 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
I propose the accurate and catchy "Lee vs Gu at least six game match". ;-)

So you're predicting that Lee Sedol wins all the games? I'll bet you can get great odds for that!

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Post #18 Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:24 am 
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Let's face it! Neither Lee Sedol nor Gu Li are the best of business anymore, they're past their prime. It should be like it was in Chess up to 20 years ago: a candidate tournament of ALL top players from CHN, KOR, JPN, US, EUR, ... and the best two play a series like they do now with the winner gettin a million bucks.

The series between Sedol and Li is like one of those box match-up's of washed up former stars that still want to generate some revenue. I rather wanna see the best of the best clashing it out, not the most (in)famous.

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Post #19 Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:28 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:

White 8 (kosumitsuke) was tried once before, by Kimu Sujun in Japan in 2011. Otherwise White has favoured making a Chinese shimari here.



White 8 surprised me, didn't Gu know there was an article in Sensei's library that clearly stated a kick without a pincher is not joseki.


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Post #20 Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:23 am 
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badukJr wrote:
trout wrote:
In China, 10 games match was played quite often long before 10 games match during 1930-1950 in japan.


10 game match was popular in Japan way before 1930, sorry.


As opposed to the games of blood and tears, or the match between Fan Xiping and Shi Ding'an?

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