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 Post subject: Re: Keyboards.
Post #21 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:38 am 
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I have a 15 year old Dell keyboard. I really like the feel so I've carried it from one computer to the next over the years. It's the kind that has mechanical switches - I find they give better feel than a modern keyboard. A bunch of the labels on the keys have gotten worn off, but that's OK, I use the Dvorak layout so the labels are pretty meaningless to me anyway.

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Post #22 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:42 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
I reviewed the Kineses a number of years ago. My two complaints are that it's way too big, and that the action on the keys is (was) very stiff. It's also overpriced.

BTW, I use a Dvorak layout too; I just find that with less movement on the keys, I don't need an ergo shape keyboard.


I was fine on just dvorak, too, for a while, but the last nanowrimo combined with full-time programming convinced me to spend the money. Programming uses a lot of keys that are traditionally hit by the right pinky. I remapped my kinesis (yes, overpriced, keys seem ok to me, and size shouldn't be a problem if you put your trackpad in the middle) to spread them out a little.

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Post #23 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:48 am 
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A friend of mine went through a whole slew of keyboards (at significant expense considering one was a Topre Realforce) looking for a solution to his RSI. The Kinesis Freestyle is the first one that worked out for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Keyboards.
Post #24 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:33 am 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
re: dvorak:

I would say there's no point in learning it unless you *don't* already touch type; it's easier to learn than Qwerty and you won't be able to transfer your bad habits over. Or if you're getting RSI, but switch keyboards and mice before you go to all the effort.


If you're just typing with two or four fingers, there's no gain. If you touch type - either before or after learning Dvorak - then there is gain. But for most people who don't touch type and will never learn, I think it's a waste of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Keyboards.
Post #25 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:35 am 
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I use a Unicomp "Customizer 101" I bought new a few years ago. The keyboard is heavy enough to stun an ox. I love the feel of the buckling spring keys and the CLACK they make as I type. It's a PS/2 keyboard, but I have not had any trouble using a USB adapter. It's old school, but so am I ;-).


Last edited by Redbeard on Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Keyboards.
Post #26 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:30 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
I use a Filco Majestouch tenkeyless with Cherry MX Brown switches, which is why I immediately recognized this:



Where were you a few months ago? I searched on the usual sites (Amazon, Newegg) for a compact keyboard or a regular/smallish kb without a tenkey, and all I found were really crappy overpriced options that were fundamentally flawed in some way or another (like this one with the most absurdly annoying 'enter' shape and placement and '/' placement ever).

This certainly doesn't offer a solution for "overpriced" but "crappy" seems to be taken care of. I will have to ponder. :scratch:

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Post #27 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:53 pm 
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kirkmc wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
re: dvorak:

I would say there's no point in learning it unless you *don't* already touch type; it's easier to learn than Qwerty and you won't be able to transfer your bad habits over. Or if you're getting RSI, but switch keyboards and mice before you go to all the effort.


If you're just typing with two or four fingers, there's no gain. If you touch type - either before or after learning Dvorak - then there is gain. But for most people who don't touch type and will never learn, I think it's a waste of time.


Is it really true that most people don't touch type? I mean, maybe most 50 year olds don't, but I'd suspect most 20 somethings do.

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 Post subject: Re: Keyboards.
Post #28 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:00 pm 
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I prefer standard, I never bothered to learn emacs because vi is what exists everywhere so if I can do it in vi it makes everything so much easier.
It's no fun editing on a firewall where no programs can be installed if you cannot handle vi
(of course if you're doing more advanced things, it's different, but for me it's always been technical)

I hate the windows key, separable keyboards and other abominations. I still use my dell keyboard from 1995 or so, like wms I move it from one PC to another.

The only improvement I can think of is a tab key at the num pad.

Caps is pretty useless, but not as useless as the windows key, and ¨ and ^ are less usefull than eg the norwegian/danish ae or crossed over o (ö) for me.

½ is a key that I seriously boubt any sober person would put on a keyboard btw.

OK so I have some other ideas of improvements...
Also the space tab is too big, buut I generally like the "standard" keyboard, the only real bother is the lack of a tab key on the num pad

/Mats
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Post #29 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:24 pm 
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CSamurai wrote:

Why would you want a keyboard with LEDs on the keys, do you look at your keyboard or something?


About Dvorak - I used it for over 5 years and just recently switched to qwerty. I think it's overrated: the advantages of marginally faster and more comfortable typing will not outweigh the disadvantages of using something nobody else does.

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Post #30 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:28 pm 
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palapiku wrote:
CSamurai wrote:

Why would you want a keyboard with LEDs on the keys, do you look at your keyboard or something?


What, you've never wanted your keyboard to display randomly changing images as you type?

I have touchtyped for over 15 years now, but having 113 programable, undetermined displays is way more awesome than the keyboard you dovorak users should buy.

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Post #31 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:43 pm 
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CSamurai wrote:
I have touchtyped for over 15 years now, but having 113 programable, undetermined displays is way more awesome than the keyboard you dovorak users should buy.

Haha, that keyboard always makes me laugh. The whole point of a keyboard with blank keys is to look pretty and clean - and then they go ahead and spoil everything with the retarded "das keyboard" logo.

Here's my own blank keyboard:
Attachment:
keyboard3.jpg
keyboard3.jpg [ 140.5 KiB | Viewed 8022 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Keyboards.
Post #32 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:27 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
I have never used anything except the keyboard which the computer comes with. It never occurred to me to do otherwise. Right now I have a small laptop and just use the keyboard on that. I don't even have a clue what most of the posts in the thread are talking about. Does it really make that much difference as most people can adjust to whatever they have. Sort of like driving a car - when I need one I just buy the best deal my mechanic has on his lot.


I think it's partly a question of how much "into" one's computer one is. That is, some folks -- possibly some here -- perhaps spend most of their waking hours working at a keyboard for one reason or another. For them, it makes sense to splurge a bit.

For most of us (especially those of us who can't even touch-type!) just any ol' thing will do!

Then there's also the "cool" factor -- which has got to be the only reason to buy that nifty keyboard with the programmable OLED keys.

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Post #33 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:08 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
kirkmc wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
re: dvorak:

I would say there's no point in learning it unless you *don't* already touch type; it's easier to learn than Qwerty and you won't be able to transfer your bad habits over. Or if you're getting RSI, but switch keyboards and mice before you go to all the effort.


If you're just typing with two or four fingers, there's no gain. If you touch type - either before or after learning Dvorak - then there is gain. But for most people who don't touch type and will never learn, I think it's a waste of time.


Is it really true that most people don't touch type? I mean, maybe most 50 year olds don't, but I'd suspect most 20 somethings do.


I highly doubt it. Touch typing means you don't need to look at the keyboard.

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Post #34 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:02 am 
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Helel wrote:
kirkmc wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
Is it really true that most people don't touch type? I mean, maybe most 50 year olds don't, but I'd suspect most 20 somethings do.


I highly doubt it. Touch typing means you don't need to look at the keyboard.


Well when you use two hands this is easy since the fingers know where the letters are placed. What I find hard is when you have one hand on the pointing-device (track ball in my case) and only want to write a couple of letters like "hi" with the other hand. Hence my wish for keyboards where it's possible to move the labels.

And why should touch typing be less frequent among older people? Arthritis?


I've only met a handful of people, other than those in my line of work, or who are professional secretaries, who actually touch type. You must be living in a country where people were taught to type, because in most countries this is certainly not the case.

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Post #35 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:13 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
I've only met a handful of people, other than those in my line of work, or who are professional secretaries, who actually touch type. You must be living in a country where people were taught to type, because in most countries this is certainly not the case.


There's plenty of people in my industry that touch type too ;)

Unless on an unfamiliar keyboard, I'm only likely to look down for obscure presses like F keys, and I suspect in IT that's the norm rather than exception.

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Post #36 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:04 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
Is that your computer? Why do you leave the stickers on?


No, mine has no stickers, except for the type stickers on the underside. :)

Quote:
Re Dvorak: it's of no use unless you touch-type.


I touch-type since I was about 11 years old (I am 33 now). Given that the standard layout is not really bad, I think that it is more important to have a standard layout than to have a theoretically perfect layout.

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Post #37 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:28 am 
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Helel wrote:
And why should touch typing be less frequent among older people? Arthritis?


Not a trivial reason! But I was thinking of familiarity. I first 'used' a computer when I was three.

Quote:
I've only met a handful of people, other than those in my line of work, or who are professional secretaries, who actually touch type. You must be living in a country where people were taught to type, because in most countries this is certainly not the case.


I was taught touch-typing in 1996 in 7th grade in the States. My school was a magnet, and therefore a bit progressive, but I suspect these courses are common. Now, touch-typing won't take for everyone, but if kids are familiar with computers, it'll be easier.

I wonder if there will be a second generational shift--while I'll definitely encourage my daughter to be familiar with a real OS ("It's a Unix system, I know this!"), I suspect she'll spend a lot more time using tablets and phones early on.

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Post #38 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:14 am 
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fwiffo wrote:

@ethanb: Is this the fix you need?

Image



Mmmm, buckling springs...

Quote:

There are PS/2 to USB adapters, so you should be able to use a PS/2 Model M for the foreseeable future. And if you still can't find what you need, check out geekhack.org. There are some serious keyboard fetishists there who will point you in the right direction.


Woah, that forum is awesome! Now I *have* to buy a mechanical keyboard!

I'm iffy on PS/2 to USB adapters though - I remember getting USB mice when USB was new - they came with PS/2 adapters and most of them only worked for a month or less...

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Post #39 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:26 am 
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Fits so well from so many years that you don't think about it.

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Post #40 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:17 pm 
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ethanb wrote:
I'm iffy on PS/2 to USB adapters though - I remember getting USB mice when USB was new - they came with PS/2 adapters and most of them only worked for a month or less...

I've never had any problems with them, I've switched to a USB mouse now, but my keyboard's been on one of those adapters for 3-4 years now.

/Mats

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