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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #21 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:20 pm 
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To address the original goal:

As I said, I had the same goal for myself a while back. It *is* cool to achieve 1 Dan somewhere, even if you know that doesn’t match your “real” strength. And GoQuest is a fun and challenging environment.

For those who aren’t aware, early on it’s easy to gain ranks on GoQuest. Leveling up might be as simple as “win 3 games at your current rank.” If you play long enough, you’re likely to do that even if you lose far more often. But later on, the ranks are tied to your Elo rating on GoQuest, which I’ve found surprisingly accurate at telling me whether I’ll get a good game from my opponent. Honestly, I wish more servers published an Elo rating (or something similar) in addition to the rank. At the SDK and dan levels, you have to hit a certain Elo rating and win a certain number of consecutive games at that rating to level up. That can be pretty hard, even if you’re winning at above a 50% rate. It makes that eventual level up pretty satisfying.

The other nice thing about GoQuest is that once you are 1 Dan your rank won’t slip back. Your Elo rating can drop (and that’s what it uses for match-making), but the rank is an indication of the highest level you’ve achieved. Since it’s 9x9 they don’t use the same handicap system as most servers, so that’s not a concern.

One thing I found interesting about working on my 9x9 game was how many strategic concepts carry over from 19x19 go. Yes, you have to be good at fighting (but you do to be really good on a full size board too), but the concepts of leaning attacks, influence, sacrifice, and shape are all evident, too. And since you get feedback so quickly, you can really see how they affect your game.

Don’t let the miscommunication turn you off. This forum is generally a pretty supportive bunch, and I at least would love to hear about your progress!

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #22 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:55 am 
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jeromie wrote:
To address the original goal:

As I said, I had the same goal for myself a while back. It *is* cool to achieve 1 Dan somewhere, even if you know that doesn’t match your “real” strength. And GoQuest is a fun and challenging environment.

For those who aren’t aware, early on it’s easy to gain ranks on GoQuest. Leveling up might be as simple as “win 3 games at your current rank.” If you play long enough, you’re likely to do that even if you lose far more often. But later on, the ranks are tied to your Elo rating on GoQuest, which I’ve found surprisingly accurate at telling me whether I’ll get a good game from my opponent. Honestly, I wish more servers published an Elo rating (or something similar) in addition to the rank. At the SDK and dan levels, you have to hit a certain Elo rating and win a certain number of consecutive games at that rating to level up. That can be pretty hard, even if you’re winning at above a 50% rate. It makes that eventual level up pretty satisfying.

The other nice thing about GoQuest is that once you are 1 Dan your rank won’t slip back. Your Elo rating can drop (and that’s what it uses for match-making), but the rank is an indication of the highest level you’ve achieved. Since it’s 9x9 they don’t use the same handicap system as most servers, so that’s not a concern.

One thing I found interesting about working on my 9x9 game was how many strategic concepts carry over from 19x19 go. Yes, you have to be good at fighting (but you do to be really good on a full size board too), but the concepts of leaning attacks, influence, sacrifice, and shape are all evident, too. And since you get feedback so quickly, you can really see how they affect your game.

Don’t let the miscommunication turn you off. This forum is generally a pretty supportive bunch, and I at least would love to hear about your progress!


Thank you very much Jeromie- I appreciate the time you've taken to write that. I've found the recent experience of refocusing just on 9x9 very illuminating. (I'd spent the first year just doing 9x9, then happily got into 19x19 which I still love- just frustrated at 9k plateau.) I've been appreciating sacrifice, and furikawari more recently. Also appreciating the Chinese rules on GQ (prisoners don't seem to matter etc, so you can experiment with sacrifices etc).

And it's exactly as you say- even though I realise 9x9 GQ 1d means little in the scheme of things, it's still meaningful/satisfying to me and feels in reach. My plan is once I get 1d-9x9 to go back into the 19x19 etc.

All the best.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #23 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:35 am 
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Kiguchiterrier wrote:
Thank you very much Jeromie- I appreciate the time you've taken to write that. I've found the recent experience of refocusing just on 9x9 very illuminating. (I'd spent the first year just doing 9x9, then happily got into 19x19 which I still love- just frustrated at 9k plateau.) I've been appreciating sacrifice, and furikawari more recently. Also appreciating the Chinese rules on GQ (prisoners don't seem to matter etc, so you can experiment with sacrifices etc).

And it's exactly as you say- even though I realise 9x9 GQ 1d means little in the scheme of things, it's still meaningful/satisfying to me and feels in reach. My plan is once I get 1d-9x9 to go back into the 19x19 etc.


Definitely best of luck from me - also thank you for introducing me to GoQuest, I hadn't encountered it before and it's a lot of fun :)

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #24 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:49 am 
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Something that helped me go from 1800 to 2000+ on GoQuest was to just get out of the 19x19 mindset and be willing to play moves you wouldn't even consider on a full-sized board. I would go to the leaderboard and study the games of 2600+ players, and learn all of the funny-named openings like "Hand fan", "Equilateral 2", "Windmill", etc. When I first saw Windmill and Handfan in my games, I couldn't believe the first moves were valid, but again just have to stop thinking on a full-sized board and embrace the strange 9x9 world :scratch:.


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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #25 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am 
Judan

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Such a tease Solomon, what are those openings?! Is this armpit hit that goes against normal full board principles such an opening?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

I hardly play 9x9 and am relatively weak for my 19x19 level, but something I've noticed is that it can often be a good strategy (or accident) to be the first one to die on 9x9 if you can then get a lot of forcing moves so solidify the rest of the board.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #26 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:14 am 
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I don't play much 9x9 but I noticed that some 9x9 openings can be found at https://online-go.com/puzzle/181

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #27 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:19 am 
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Another nice resource for studying openings: http://ps.waltheri.net/9x9/
The database contains 21 000 games between strong players on GoQuest.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #28 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:31 am 
Gosei
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Uberdude wrote:
Such a tease Solomon, what are those openings?! Is this armpit hit that goes against normal full board principles such an opening?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

I hardly play 9x9 and am relatively weak for my 19x19 level, but something I've noticed is that it can often be a good strategy (or accident) to be the first one to die on 9x9 if you can then get a lot of forcing moves so solidify the rest of the board.


Hmm, I don't think I've seen that one very much actually. And yes, you are absolutely correct regarding being the first one to die to get forcing moves in! For example, in Windmill:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 3 2 8 y . . |
$$ | . . . 4 5 x a . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I've found 'a' to be the most common followup to try and get W to take the 2 stones and get forcing moves like x and y in. Some other opening names I've run into:

Orthodox
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Curveball
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 4 . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Soccer juggling
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Hand fan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 4 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Jump attack
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 4 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Black boomerang
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . , 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Bean throwing
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . 2 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . , 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Sword
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 3 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Pendulum
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . 2 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Lunar eclipse
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . , . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Kodachi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 , 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


New Orthodox
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 , 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 3 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Slider
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 , 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . 3 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Secret agent 033
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 , 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 3 . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Andromeda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 4 5 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 , 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 6 3 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


White slice
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . , . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 , 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Jump attachment!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 , 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Boots
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . 1 , 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Flower
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 2 . . . |
$$ | . . , . 6 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Almost Equilateral 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . , . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Almost Equilateral 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , 2 . 3 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Almost Equilateral 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . 2 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Sea fairy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 1 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . , . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 3 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Flower fairy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . , . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Cross line
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . 1 . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . 4 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


This post by Solomon was liked by 5 people: Bill Spight, dfan, Elom, Uberdude, yakcyll
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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #29 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:46 am 
Tengen
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Uberdude wrote:
Such a tease Solomon, what are those openings?! Is this armpit hit that goes against normal full board principles such an opening?


Windmill:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . , 8 2 3 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


I came across this by accident, the others I have no idea about !

PS Ninja'd by Solomon's outstanding post of awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #30 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:22 am 
Judan

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Who comes up with these names? :lol: I thought windmill might be this, or is this pinwheel? Or maybe it's just terrible for white on the small board so not played.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 2 8 . . |
$$ | . . . 6 4 3 . . . |
$$ | . . , . . 5 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #31 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:22 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . , 8 2 3 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 4 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Yeah, it's strangely non-symmetrical, but this is actually really hard for Black to play. There are so many odd liberty fights that crop up here. My immediate reaction to :w4: was "has to be overplay", but playing on both sides of it Black has been the one suffering for me

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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #32 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:04 pm 
Honinbo

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topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . , 8 2 3 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 4 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Yeah, it's strangely non-symmetrical, but this is actually really hard for Black to play. There are so many odd liberty fights that crop up here. My immediate reaction to :w4: was "has to be overplay", but playing on both sides of it Black has been the one suffering for me


Maybe :w4: is an overplay, but :b9: looks like one to me. :)

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This post by Bill Spight was liked by: topazg
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 Post subject: Re: GoQuest gunning for 1dan 9x9!
Post #33 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:12 pm 
Tengen
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Bill Spight wrote:
topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . , 8 2 3 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 4 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


Yeah, it's strangely non-symmetrical, but this is actually really hard for Black to play. There are so many odd liberty fights that crop up here. My immediate reaction to :w4: was "has to be overplay", but playing on both sides of it Black has been the one suffering for me


Maybe :w4: is an overplay, but :b9: looks like one to me. :)


I'm fairly convinced it is, I found it out the hard way, and have had two people try it to me with similar misery for Black.

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