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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #41 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:26 pm 
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aokun wrote:
kex wrote:
The original poster asked about western names, but so far the answers have been about European languages, such as English, German, Dutch. None of the western languages have really been considered.

So what would it be in Navajo, Penutian or Nahuatl?


Well, in Navajo, it'd be called "checkerboard," the white player would called "Bia" and komi would be the white player's "Dawes allotment." More seriously, the concept of hozro or hozho, not sure the spelling, would cover the balance aspects of the game very nicely, just not the part where one player wins by crunching the other.


Intriguingly, some ludologists believe that the people who crossed the Bering Straits brought proto-parcheesi with them. If they had brought 弈 with them as well, it would probably have a derivative name.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #42 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:04 pm 
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kex wrote:
The original poster asked about western names, but so far the answers have been about European languages, such as English, German, Dutch. None of the western languages have really been considered.

So what would it be in Navajo, Penutian or Nahuatl?


I never understood. Is America to the west of Eurasia or to the east?

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #43 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:41 pm 
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cyclops wrote:
kex wrote:
The original poster asked about western names, but so far the answers have been about European languages, such as English, German, Dutch. None of the western languages have really been considered.

So what would it be in Navajo, Penutian or Nahuatl?


I never understood. Is America to the west of Eurasia or to the east?


Typically when you have a map on paper, the Americas are placed to the west of Eurasia. However, on a globe, and in reality, it's sort of both.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #44 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:54 pm 
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hailthorn011 wrote:
cyclops wrote:
kex wrote:
The original poster asked about western names, but so far the answers have been about European languages, such as English, German, Dutch. None of the western languages have really been considered.

So what would it be in Navajo, Penutian or Nahuatl?


I never understood. Is America to the west of Eurasia or to the east?


Typically when you have a map on paper, the Americas are placed to the west of Eurasia. However, on a globe, and in reality, it's sort of both.

I'm not sure, but haven't most American maps America/the Pacific in the center?

How about naming it "WeTo - Weird Topology" or "CRC - Calculate, Read and Count"?

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #45 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Because of its simplicity to learn, profoundness in playing:
"Child's Chess"

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Post #46 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:03 pm 
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cyclops wrote:
kex wrote:
The original poster asked about western names, but so far the answers have been about European languages, such as English, German, Dutch. None of the western languages have really been considered.

So what would it be in Navajo, Penutian or Nahuatl?


I never understood. Is America to the west of Eurasia or to the east?


Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #47 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:55 pm 
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In America most maps are positioned like this one:

http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #48 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:32 pm 
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"East" and "West" are not geographic terms.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #49 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:40 am 
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palapiku wrote:
"East" and "West" are not geographic terms.


indeed, top, bottom, right and left are.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #50 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:34 am 
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point -> cell
group -> organism
chain -> limb
linesegment -> pipe/artery/vessel
eye -> lung
free space -> air
to live -> to breath
to atari/to attack -> to strangle
to die -> to suffocate
go -> oxygen

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #51 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:23 am 
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Continuing OT about east and west: I have almost thought that the 180 meridian is the divider: if you approach it from the right, you do no longer go west when you go over it, instead you switch from "extreme" west to "extreme" east and then you start going west again (and vice versa).

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #52 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:15 am 
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cyclops wrote:
point -> cell
group -> organism
chain -> limb
linesegment -> pipe/artery/vessel
eye -> lung
free space -> air
to live -> to breath
to atari/to attack -> to strangle
to die -> to suffocate
go -> oxygen

This is interesting.

When I was a kid (to be exact: in the early 60s) my parents explained Go to me this way:

“Imagine the line segments leading away from your stones to be straws through which you can breathe. If you have no more open straws, then you die.”

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #53 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:53 am 
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I just realized something odd has happened.

In none of this discussion has anybody referred to the original root meaning(s) of the words that became the name of the game in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean.

How apt? How obvious a description? etc. In what ways related or independent?

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #54 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:00 pm 
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WeiQi - "Wei" is to surround, "Qi" is now the generic name for board names (though it was originally used to describe Go only - I guess the literal meaning is "pieces"). The oldest name that I know of for Go is Yi (弈), which as far as I know just means to play (a board name). There are a bunch of other names:

Most of the below info are taken from http://www.xadyxw.cn/bbs/MINI/Default.a ... 0-0-a-.htm

Any errors in translation are solely my own. There are several other names, but they are too obscure/difficult for me to understand :p

ShouTan (手谈): conversation through moves/hands.

MuYeHu (木野狐): wooden wild fox - foxes were considered to be able to seduce/hypnotize humans, so they were used to describe the addictiveness of the game.

LanKe (烂柯): rotten handle - this is from a legend about a farmer who lost his way in a mountain and saw a game between two immortals. When the game finished he realized that the handle on his axe has rotted.

LuWu (鹭乌): two types of birds which are white and black (white heron (?) and crow).

WangYou (忘忧): to forget worries.

FangYuan (方圆): square and circle - the board and stones. This terms is also used to describe the world ("天圆地方" - the sky is round and the earth is square).

HeiBai (黑白): black and white - also has the meaning of "night and day" and "wrong and right".

ZuoYin (坐隐): sitting recluse - to describe how one immerses himself/herself in the game.

Not sure about Japanese and Korean. I do know that Igo is the exact same characters (well, not exactly, but they are characters with the same meaning in Chinese, and are still in dictionaries, just less common alternative ways to write).

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Post #55 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Javaness2 wrote:
It should be called Wurple, then it would rhyme with purple.

There are already at least two words that rhyme with purple; do we really need another one?

On topic, the first thing that occurred to me was "Stone Chess." I think it has a nice ring to it.

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Post #56 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Bonobo wrote:
cyclops wrote:
...

This is interesting.

When I was a kid (to be exact: in the early 60s) my parents explained Go to me this way:

“Imagine the line segments leading away from your stones to be straws through which you can breathe. If you have no more open straws, then you die.”


Well, I was actually looking for a system for which go could serve as a model. Life depending on two lungs suited best. Of course it is a bit artificial. Probably your parents reasoned along similar lines.

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Post #57 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:27 pm 
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illluck wrote:
...

Not sure about Japanese and Korean. I do know that Igo is the exact same characters (well, not exactly, but they are characters with the same meaning in Chinese, and are still in dictionaries, just less common alternative ways to write).


The case of "igo", as you already referenced, is straightforward: igo is 囲碁, and 囲 is to surround and 碁 is for the game itself.

The case of Korean is a little less straightforward, because it is not directly a Chinese character word. However, one theory is that the name comes oroginally from 배자 (beh-jah), which is from the old Sunjang Baduk. Since 배 (beh)from 배자 (beh-jah) can mean "placement", this may have evolved to 배돌 (beh-dol) since 돌 (dol) is for stone. In other words, 배돌 (beh-dol) could have evolved from 배자 (beh-jah) since it means placement and stone. 배돌 (beh-dol) is then thought to have possibly transformed to 바돌 (bah-dol) because it has a similar sound.

And in fact, "baduk" used to be called 바돌 (bah-dol) in old books, at least sometime prior to 1910, after which 바둑 (baduk) began to be seen often in newspapers and magazines.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #58 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:42 am 
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That's the idea I was trying to express.

Japanese ended up using for its name for the game a translation of the Chinese name thus keeping the concept "surround game". But what often happens instead is a "sounds like" name develops since in most places where written languages exist the symbols with their meanings does not cross language borders.

Thus our name for the game of "kings" is "chess" because chess sounds like shahs.

But back to the beginning. How does "surround" do as a name? While there would be many other possibilities, can you think of any other particualr possibility more likely/suitable that this one for capturing the essense of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #59 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:29 am 
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mw42 wrote:
Javaness2 wrote:
It should be called Wurple, then it would rhyme with purple.

There are already at least two words that rhyme with purple; do we really need another one?


Then perhaps we should go with Smorange.

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 Post subject: Re: The game of Go - how Westerners would name it
Post #60 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Balance wrote:
The western approach would be rather nicely reflected by the name "Grasp".

I like this one. Grasp has an evocative sound to it. Plus, grasp can refer to grasping territory or grasping the opponent's stones.

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