Search found 418 matches

by Pio2001
Mon May 15, 2023 11:26 am
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
Replies: 28
Views: 44416

Re: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules

The usual situation used to show that territory scoring is sharper than area scoring is this one :

$$ Territory sharper than area \n White to play
$$ -------------
$$ . . X . a O .
$$ . . X X X O .
$$ . . X . b O .
$$ . . X O O O .
$$ . . X O . . .
$$ . . X O . . .

Under area scoring, it ...
by Pio2001
Sun May 14, 2023 2:17 pm
Forum: Study Group
Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Replies: 11
Views: 13534

Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?

I have no explanation for the fact that in situation b), a ko threat of 10, 12 or 14 points are worth exactly the same in actual score.

I think I know.
In this situation, if white takes the ko, Black executes the threat.
If White prevents the threat, Black will execute another identical threat ...
by Pio2001
Sun May 14, 2023 10:22 am
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
Replies: 28
Views: 44416

Re: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules

I understand it this way : it is logical to say that recapturing in a ko is forbidden, because it's exactly like if I was removing my opponent's move.
Thus forbidding this is a "logical necessity".

But if I do so indirectly, after a long cycle, the logic is less clear. I have not prevented my ...
by Pio2001
Sun May 14, 2023 10:05 am
Forum: Study Group
Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Replies: 11
Views: 13534

Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?

I have setup positions where Black has two large ko threats and White has two small ko threats.
Here are the conclusions of the tree exploration based on real scores, chinese scoring.

The ko is still the same : 15 points of swing value (japanese counting), no follow-ups, nothing left to play after ...
by Pio2001
Sun May 14, 2023 9:05 am
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
Replies: 28
Views: 44416

Re: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules

Thank you John, I like this article a lot, and mostly agree with it.

I didn't understand the part about the ko rule. Is it the (simple) ko rule or the superko rule which is supposedly a consequence of the axioms?

As far as I understand, Chen Zuyuan suggests that the superko rule must be used ...
by Pio2001
Wed May 03, 2023 11:18 am
Forum: Study Group
Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Replies: 11
Views: 13534

Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?

The tree exploration confirms that taking the ko is the best move : Black wins +17.5.
Answering the 6 points threat, Black wins +15.5 only.

I'll try and see what happens if Black has two large threats and White two small threats.

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]
PW ...
by Pio2001
Tue May 02, 2023 11:09 am
Forum: Study Group
Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Replies: 11
Views: 13534

Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?

Maybe compare with this?
https://senseis.xmp.net/?KoThreatRuleOfThumb

Thank you !
It works perfectly in the position that I posted.

The following conditions for Bill's rule of thumb are met:
we have a simple, ordinary ko with 3 plays between a Black win and a White win,
we can ignore the ...
by Pio2001
Mon May 01, 2023 2:48 pm
Forum: Study Group
Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Replies: 11
Views: 13534

What's the right value for a ko threat ?

Hello,
I've been thinking about the value of ko threats.

I've created a position where there is one ko, and several ko threats. I scored every line until the end of the game, in order to see what's the real value of each move (not the estimated value), and see what ko threat should be answered ...
by Pio2001
Mon May 01, 2023 2:24 pm
Forum: Game Analysis
Topic: How to post SGF files
Replies: 31
Views: 5563215

Re: How to post SGF files

Hello,
When I click "Add the file", I've got a message saying "Could not upload attachment to ./files/3963_2b41f2bb5b95ff62a21737e3bb7ac780.".

Is it just me ?
by Pio2001
Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:14 pm
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
Replies: 112
Views: 132184

Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des

Or, can anyone try to find where the Japanese rules allow this type of non-alternating play during game-play, not during life-and-death confirmation or end-of-game dame filling & reinforcement. Or try to find some Japanese tradition of playing moves and then deciding to pass for a bit to allow non ...
by Pio2001
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:34 pm
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
Replies: 112
Views: 132184

Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des

Why do you think the black stones are dead? This goes against my understanding of Life and Death confirmation in the Japanese Rules. The 6 black stones are alive. Dame filling and reinforcement are part of confirming life and death.

If the 6 black stones were alive, then there would be no dame ...
by Pio2001
Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:29 am
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
Replies: 112
Views: 132184

Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des

On the whole, I think Area Scoring is a better design. But Stone Scoring is better design than Territory or Area because the scoring is directly related to the play mechanic. Area scoring needs additional rules for scoring.

That's right, stone scoring has fewer rules. The winner is the one with ...
by Pio2001
Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:18 pm
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
Replies: 112
Views: 132184

Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des

Does anyone believe that Go should should include additional game-pieces for tracking the current turn and placing a token having the turn number of the board when a stone is captured?

If not, then how is Go without rules requiring cycles to be tracked not the best designed version of the game ...
by Pio2001
Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:30 pm
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: Moonlight life and go rules
Replies: 96
Views: 161230

Re: Moonlight life and go rules

Whether the ko can be retaken after pass (in normal play) is not completely clear but may be guessed as passing for a ko (then retake it) is also the basis in hypothetical play. The Japanese rule are clear. The rules only allow for a stone to be played after another stone. There is no rule allowing ...
by Pio2001
Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:18 pm
Forum: Go Rules
Topic: A piece of the rules puzzle - the Korean / Japanese dilemma
Replies: 29
Views: 38973

Re: A piece of the rules puzzle - the Korean / Japanese dile

When I wrote that go was a game which rules were not completely defined (with Japanese rules in mind), I was not talking about superko, which is an easily solved problem. I was talking about the removal of "dead" stones.
What is a dead stone is very difficult to define.