The usual situation used to show that territory scoring is sharper than area scoring is this one :
$$ Territory sharper than area \n White to play
$$ -------------
$$ . . X . a O .
$$ . . X X X O .
$$ . . X . b O .
$$ . . X O O O .
$$ . . X O . . .
$$ . . X O . . .
Under area scoring, it ...
Search found 418 matches
- Mon May 15, 2023 11:26 am
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
- Replies: 28
- Views: 44416
- Sun May 14, 2023 2:17 pm
- Forum: Study Group
- Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
- Replies: 11
- Views: 13534
Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
I have no explanation for the fact that in situation b), a ko threat of 10, 12 or 14 points are worth exactly the same in actual score.
I think I know.
In this situation, if white takes the ko, Black executes the threat.
If White prevents the threat, Black will execute another identical threat ...
I think I know.
In this situation, if white takes the ko, Black executes the threat.
If White prevents the threat, Black will execute another identical threat ...
- Sun May 14, 2023 10:22 am
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
- Replies: 28
- Views: 44416
Re: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
I understand it this way : it is logical to say that recapturing in a ko is forbidden, because it's exactly like if I was removing my opponent's move.
Thus forbidding this is a "logical necessity".
But if I do so indirectly, after a long cycle, the logic is less clear. I have not prevented my ...
Thus forbidding this is a "logical necessity".
But if I do so indirectly, after a long cycle, the logic is less clear. I have not prevented my ...
- Sun May 14, 2023 10:05 am
- Forum: Study Group
- Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
- Replies: 11
- Views: 13534
Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
I have setup positions where Black has two large ko threats and White has two small ko threats.
Here are the conclusions of the tree exploration based on real scores, chinese scoring.
The ko is still the same : 15 points of swing value (japanese counting), no follow-ups, nothing left to play after ...
Here are the conclusions of the tree exploration based on real scores, chinese scoring.
The ko is still the same : 15 points of swing value (japanese counting), no follow-ups, nothing left to play after ...
- Sun May 14, 2023 9:05 am
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
- Replies: 28
- Views: 44416
Re: Ultimate theory of weiqi rules
Thank you John, I like this article a lot, and mostly agree with it.
I didn't understand the part about the ko rule. Is it the (simple) ko rule or the superko rule which is supposedly a consequence of the axioms?
As far as I understand, Chen Zuyuan suggests that the superko rule must be used ...
I didn't understand the part about the ko rule. Is it the (simple) ko rule or the superko rule which is supposedly a consequence of the axioms?
As far as I understand, Chen Zuyuan suggests that the superko rule must be used ...
- Wed May 03, 2023 11:18 am
- Forum: Study Group
- Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
- Replies: 11
- Views: 13534
Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
The tree exploration confirms that taking the ko is the best move : Black wins +17.5.
Answering the 6 points threat, Black wins +15.5 only.
I'll try and see what happens if Black has two large threats and White two small threats.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]
PW ...
Answering the 6 points threat, Black wins +15.5 only.
I'll try and see what happens if Black has two large threats and White two small threats.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]
PW ...
- Tue May 02, 2023 11:09 am
- Forum: Study Group
- Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
- Replies: 11
- Views: 13534
Re: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Maybe compare with this?
https://senseis.xmp.net/?KoThreatRuleOfThumb
Thank you !
It works perfectly in the position that I posted.
The following conditions for Bill's rule of thumb are met:
we have a simple, ordinary ko with 3 plays between a Black win and a White win,
we can ignore the ...
https://senseis.xmp.net/?KoThreatRuleOfThumb
Thank you !
It works perfectly in the position that I posted.
The following conditions for Bill's rule of thumb are met:
we have a simple, ordinary ko with 3 plays between a Black win and a White win,
we can ignore the ...
- Mon May 01, 2023 2:48 pm
- Forum: Study Group
- Topic: What's the right value for a ko threat ?
- Replies: 11
- Views: 13534
What's the right value for a ko threat ?
Hello,
I've been thinking about the value of ko threats.
I've created a position where there is one ko, and several ko threats. I scored every line until the end of the game, in order to see what's the real value of each move (not the estimated value), and see what ko threat should be answered ...
I've been thinking about the value of ko threats.
I've created a position where there is one ko, and several ko threats. I scored every line until the end of the game, in order to see what's the real value of each move (not the estimated value), and see what ko threat should be answered ...
- Mon May 01, 2023 2:24 pm
- Forum: Game Analysis
- Topic: How to post SGF files
- Replies: 31
- Views: 5563215
Re: How to post SGF files
Hello,
When I click "Add the file", I've got a message saying "Could not upload attachment to ./files/3963_2b41f2bb5b95ff62a21737e3bb7ac780.".
Is it just me ?
When I click "Add the file", I've got a message saying "Could not upload attachment to ./files/3963_2b41f2bb5b95ff62a21737e3bb7ac780.".
Is it just me ?
- Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:14 pm
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
- Replies: 112
- Views: 132184
Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des
Or, can anyone try to find where the Japanese rules allow this type of non-alternating play during game-play, not during life-and-death confirmation or end-of-game dame filling & reinforcement. Or try to find some Japanese tradition of playing moves and then deciding to pass for a bit to allow non ...
- Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:34 pm
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
- Replies: 112
- Views: 132184
Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des
Why do you think the black stones are dead? This goes against my understanding of Life and Death confirmation in the Japanese Rules. The 6 black stones are alive. Dame filling and reinforcement are part of confirming life and death.
If the 6 black stones were alive, then there would be no dame ...
If the 6 black stones were alive, then there would be no dame ...
- Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:29 am
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
- Replies: 112
- Views: 132184
Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des
On the whole, I think Area Scoring is a better design. But Stone Scoring is better design than Territory or Area because the scoring is directly related to the play mechanic. Area scoring needs additional rules for scoring.
That's right, stone scoring has fewer rules. The winner is the one with ...
That's right, stone scoring has fewer rules. The winner is the one with ...
- Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:18 pm
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game design
- Replies: 112
- Views: 132184
Re: Superko rules and ko-cycles rules are BAD board game des
Does anyone believe that Go should should include additional game-pieces for tracking the current turn and placing a token having the turn number of the board when a stone is captured?
If not, then how is Go without rules requiring cycles to be tracked not the best designed version of the game ...
If not, then how is Go without rules requiring cycles to be tracked not the best designed version of the game ...
- Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:30 pm
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: Moonlight life and go rules
- Replies: 96
- Views: 161230
Re: Moonlight life and go rules
Whether the ko can be retaken after pass (in normal play) is not completely clear but may be guessed as passing for a ko (then retake it) is also the basis in hypothetical play. The Japanese rule are clear. The rules only allow for a stone to be played after another stone. There is no rule allowing ...
- Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:18 pm
- Forum: Go Rules
- Topic: A piece of the rules puzzle - the Korean / Japanese dilemma
- Replies: 29
- Views: 38973
Re: A piece of the rules puzzle - the Korean / Japanese dile
When I wrote that go was a game which rules were not completely defined (with Japanese rules in mind), I was not talking about superko, which is an easily solved problem. I was talking about the removal of "dead" stones.
What is a dead stone is very difficult to define.
What is a dead stone is very difficult to define.