Search found 25 matches

by inbae
Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:28 pm
Forum: Study Group
Topic: Number of possible openings with 4-4 and 3-4
Replies: 1
Views: 3605

Re: Number of possible openings with 4-4 and 3-4

And I have sgf files for them: 4m_symm_without33 in https://github.com/isty2e/baduk-opening-book
by inbae
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:27 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: Weak engine to play against for Sabaki
Replies: 6
Views: 7094

Re: Weak engine to play against for Sabaki

Not exactly Sabaki, but I think KaTrain might be helpful for you, since you can play against a weaker, rank-tunable version of KataGo.
by inbae
Thu May 07, 2020 3:07 am
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: Circa April 2020 best setup for reviewing games?
Replies: 8
Views: 7309

Re: Circa April 2020 best setup for reviewing games?

IMO, a review program should devote about the same number of rollouts to each play that it compares with the other. I am unaware of any program that does that, but a human can make the bot do that. :)

The list of sensible moves will vary person by person, and by concentrating on the best moves ...
by inbae
Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:37 am
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: Is KataGo stronger or Leela Zero?
Replies: 1
Views: 6526

Re: Is KataGo stronger or Leela Zero?

The last time parity benchmark I did was between KataGo v1.3.2+g170-20x256-1.9G (g170-b20c256x2-s1913382912-d435450331) and Leela Zero v0.17+#263. I tested with 2xRTX2080Ti, with 60 threads for KataGo and 20 threads for LZ. The results were:

KataGo (1600 po) vs Leela Zero (1000 po): KataGo won 279 ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:39 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

I consider fixed playout tests more suitable for such purposes, since every engine will reuse the search tree and number of playouts is supposed to be more correlated to time limit than the number of visits is.
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:38 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

But such results are inherently harder to interpret and less portable, and IF/WHEN you are unable to test on the exact conditions of later use, narrower tests that are affected by less factors and thus more consistent can be more informative with less danger of being misleading. Advantages and ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:04 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

Do you imply that 1000 vs 1000 visits will be consistent with 10000 vs 10000 visits, but 1500 vs 1000 won't be so with 15000 vs 10000, for example?
Yes, this is also the exact meaning of the scalability graph you linked.

You are right about the latter, but the former is less justified. As both ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:38 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

With a playout based test, the side that tend to support more tree reuse has, say, a constant 1.5x effective search advantage. This is similar to a smaller, weaker but faster net, which (with proportional visits, or time based test) can win low search matches but lose high search matches.

Such a ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:58 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

Being stronger somewhere at identical visits normally determines the rest of the curve

Not necessarily, I suppose. For example, there are U-shaped curve, where a weaker network benefits from more visits at sweet spots, but falls of at higher visits due to scaling. However, another group consists ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:18 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

The difference in scalability means that net A needs 1.5x more visits around 1000 visit (to compensate for being weaker) but 2.5x more around 10000 visits. In both cases it is weaker than B, and would (obviously) lose at 1.0x visits.

Network strengths will not (or rarely) swap, what usually ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:16 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

The margin of victory will be different, but not the winner (assuming identical visits - unlike with identical playouts).

Those linked tests used non-identical visits, thus widened the test up to a new factor (scalability). But this was on purpose there, since the test was not about raw strength ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:53 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

A weaker net with sharper policy that allows more tree reuse trades search quality for (effective) quantity. At 1000 playouts it may win your test, and you may think it is "stronger in real world", but at 10000 playouts (where search quality starts to matter more) it may lose.

Thus your results ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:29 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

For example, if you clear the tree each move, fixed playout tests are heavily affected (the same amount of playouts / work will do less effective search) while fixed visit tests are less so (single threaded at least).

Yes, clearing the search tree will certainly affect the results, but I don't ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:10 pm
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

For example, tree reuse may work quite differently for high-visit and low-visit scenarios.
How?

Then test results that included tree reuse extent may become less relevant than narrower ones.
I'm not sure what you are meaning by "wide" and "narrow" here. And the search tree will be reused in ...
by inbae
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:37 am
Forum: Computer Go
Topic: KataGo V1.3
Replies: 215
Views: 132115

Re: KataGo V1.3

The more things you test at the same time (ie. network strength plus policy sharpness / tree reuse intensity) the harder to measure those things independently (same as with hw and other external factors).

The policy sharpness and therefore tree reuse as well are strongly bound to the nature of ...