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 Post subject: Re: Game plan as white?
Post #41 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:26 am 
Oza
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Thanks for the reviews Uberdude and Majordomo! My main takeaways are:

1. Need to learn some Japanese. :blackeye:
2. Don't keep playing in an area where both opposing groups are alive.
3. Don't play moves that make my opponent stronger without a concrete benefit to me.
4. If presented with the opportunity to solidify territory, take it.

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 Post subject: Re: Game plan as white?
Post #42 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:13 am 
Lives in sente

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Some people have trouble playing White because Black starts with sente. Also, it is difficult to judge point values of early opening moves. Black has sente and White subtly overplays trying to compensate for sente so White has a feeling of urgency and a feeling of being behind. Since Black starts it is difficult for White to follow a predetermined plan. Studying sabaki and shinogi is important. You can get an idea of how to play as White by studying pro games. Takemiya is well-known for his moyo-oriented game as Black but pros particularly admire his game as White.

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 Post subject: Re: Game plan as white?
Post #43 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:10 pm 
Lives in gote
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gowan wrote:
White has a feeling of urgency and a feeling of being behind.
i want to take issue with this; you are 5D and i am 5K, so we are pretty much the same and can argue on even terms.

Throughout prehistory, White has always been behind Black - the first people were Black, and the first Britons were Black too.



It was maybe a mistake for Black to cross the tropics, because after he did so, his skin started to turn white, and then all the trouble started, but that's Another Story.

White shines brighter than Black, so Go stone makers make Black stones wider than White ones to compensate.

A long time ago, in a far-away place, some bloke came up with a thing called komi, which seems to me grossly unfair, since it puts Black at an immediate disadvantage.

So it's Black who has to catch up with White.

And what's more, i bet if you did the statistics, you would find that half the time White gets to put down the last stone, so it's 50-50 and thus irrelevant who puts down the first one... ok, yeah, that's wrong, because if Black puts down the last one as well as the first one he will have put down 1 more than White altogether so, as usual, i am talking out of my hat.

But if you don't point out my flawed basis, no-one will notice and i can press on with my argument that it doesn't matter who goes first, because sente doesn't start to happen until there are at least 4 stones on the board - and when it does, it's worth about 30 points on average in the hands of a pro, because that's how much you can lose by putting a foot wrong and falling in the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Game plan as white?
Post #44 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:21 am 
Judan

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A few comments. :)



General comment: No wonder you feel the lack of a game plan. In this game, anyway, you mix things up early on, and yield tenuki to your opponent. One lesson from AlphaGo is that it is OK to play a relatively calm opening. Having a set plan as White is impractical, but as the opening develops, look for opportunities to tenuki and make a plan. :)

Edit: Found a better play, I think, in a variation for :w32:.

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Last edited by Bill Spight on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Game plan as white?
Post #45 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:13 am 
Lives in gote
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Bill Spight wrote:
A few comments. :)
you didn't comment on black 7, which looks a little far from the shimari to be coordinated. of the alternatives you offer for white 8, i like Alfie's press, which would get white out with a bit of a wall to jump in behind black 7.

if white tenukis, black can attach at D17 to secure the corner and make white heavy, then after both hop out, chase by jumping from black 7, building a moyo whilst white is stuck with playing on dame.

your comment?

PS metacomment: i find it troublesome to cope with posts about combinations that don't offer sgfs which one can open in another window so i can see what we're talking about, if you see what i mean. i note that yours does, thank you (even though i didn't open one this time!).

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 Post subject: Re: Game plan as white?
Post #46 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:14 am 
Judan

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djhbrown wrote:
if white tenukis, black can attach at D17 to secure the corner and make white heavy, then after both hop out, chase by jumping from black 7, building a moyo whilst white is stuck with playing on dame.

your comment?


Wishful thinking. Why do you think that White would make himself heavy?

Not that the kick (diagonal attachment) is bad. But White can tenuki or play otherwise. For instance, . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Counter pincer cum wedge
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X . . . 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


And if White stands, is he really heavy?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White attacks corner, Black's moyo is thin
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


There is even this possibility.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Flexible play by White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X . 3 . . 5 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

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