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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #21 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:24 pm 
Oza

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I now have GoWrite working. I don't know why. I first followed jujube's instructions but that did not work, with either 32-bit or 64-bit (and in 64-bit there wasn't even a bin file).

I then moved on to Calvin Clark's post and out of desperation download Java 8 again. I am 100% certain I downloaded this earlier (I accept all the update prompts from Sun/Oracle and the fact I knew about the threatened future hassle from them supports me in my conviction that I must have downloaded the most recent update already.

However, this time installing GoWrite worked, and I didn't have to do anything to the environment path.

Assuming I'm not deluding myself about updating properly, I can think of two scenarios. (1) Changing the environment path DID work, but this only becomes apparent after a re-install of GoWrite. (2) When I installed the latest Java update, I should have uninstalled GoWrite and re-installed.

BTW I have written to Lauri Paatero in the past but got no reply. Since I dislike getting pestered online myself, I was unperturbed by that, and eventually got GoWrite working again myself - probably along the lines that worked today.

Anyway, I'm grateful for all the advice and look forward to trying also the tip on svg files (one I find out what they are).


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Post #22 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:02 pm 
Judan

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Calvin Clark wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
My version of GoWrite 2 says this.

Version 2.3.46

Java version 1.6.0_65-b14-468

It stopped working after a MacOS upgrade which installed Java 8.


Remind me: Was there a reason that the 3.0 GOWrite versions weren't working for you?


2.3.46 is the latest version for MacOS. :(

Since MacOS is based on Unix (which may not have been the case when the download page was last updated), maybe I should try the Unix version.

Now if I can just uninstall the Mac Java 6 "fix". :mad:

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #23 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
2.3.46 is the latest version for MacOS. :(


Yes, but that's just for the fancy installer. Here is something that works for me (macOS High Sierra, 10.3.16)

1. Go to the main download page: https://gowrite.net/GOWrite2_download.html
2. Scroll down to "Other platforms", "Most Recent Stable".
3. Click on 3.0.14. This will download a .zip file.
4. Unzip the .zip file <somewhere>.
5. From a Terminal, cd into that <somewhere> directory.

It should contain files like this:

gowrite2_3_0_14 $ ls
GOWrite.exe gowrite.ico
GOWrite.jar gowrite.png
GOWriteHelp.jar gowrite.svg
GOWriteWin.dll gowrite.xml
application-x-go-sgf.png gowrite2
application-x-go-sgf.svg gowrite_hires.png
application-x-go-sgf_hires.png lib
aspireone-icon license.txt
goboard.ico order.txt
gowrite readme.txt
gowrite.desktop

6. Now, 'gowrite' is a bash script that passes all the right parameters to launch, so:
7. Type:

gowrite2_3_0_14 $ bash ./gowrite

It will complain about the lack of some native macOS support, but I'm not sure how much that loses. I can save .sgf, export .svg and .png files that way, for example:

Here's a .png:

Attachment:
gowrite2_3_0_14_1.png
gowrite2_3_0_14_1.png [ 3.35 KiB | Viewed 511 times ]


Before I infest my machine with Java 6, what symptoms does it cause you? Are saying you can't remove it, or that it breaks other Java apps?

BTW, OSX 10.0 for consumers was 2001, so it's been Unix-like for 17 years, give or take and that's not even counting the 1999 server version.


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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #24 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:07 pm 
Judan

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Calvin Clark wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
2.3.46 is the latest version for MacOS. :(


Yes, but that's just for the fancy installer. Here is something that works for me (macOS High Sierra, 10.3.16)


Many thanks, Calvin. :)

Quote:
Before I infest my machine with Java 6, what symptoms does it cause you?


Please do not infest your machine.

Quote:
Are saying you can't remove it, or that it breaks other Java apps?


Both. GoWrite works, as does the program that uses its own dedicated Java. But any Java program that requires a later version of Java does not work.

For a while, despite the Mac "fix", I updated my Java as occasionally prompted. However, when I actually tried a program that required Java 8, it did not work. Finally I decided to uninstall Java completely, reinstall Java 8, and worry about GoWrite later. I even followed instructions on a web site that said, here is how to really, completely uninstall java. As a result, I don't even have Java Control Panel. But GoWrite still works. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #25 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:43 pm 
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I have no problems having both Java 1.6 for GoWrite and 1.8 for everything else on MacOS 10.13.4

You should have different versions of java in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines:

Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ ls -la /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  5 root  wheel  160  9 Elo 09:18 .
drwxr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  128 27 Maa 00:31 ..
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel   96 15 Hei  2015 1.6.0.jdk
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel   96 15 Mar  2017 jdk1.8.0_131.jdk
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel   96 11 Elo  2015 jdk1.8.0_51.jdk


You should also have 1.8 in /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions:

Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ ls -la /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  128 19 Tam  2018 .
drwxr-xr-x  6 root  wheel  192 19 Tam  2018 ..
drwxr-xr-x  8 root  wheel  256 25 Huh 14:19 A
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel    1 19 Tam  2018 Current -> A


Your java command in path should point to the latter one:

Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ java -version
java version "1.8.0_131"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_131-b11)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.131-b11, mixed mode)
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ which java
/usr/bin/java
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ ls -la /usr/bin/java
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  74 19 Tam  2018 /usr/bin/java -> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java


Yet GoWrite should be able to find the 1.6 it requires.

Deleting 1.6 should be simple, if you want to do that: just delete the entire directory /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/1.6.0.jdk

@Bill Spight: Drop me a PM if your configuration looks different and you want to sort it out

PS there are also other ways to manage Java versions on MacOS, e.g. the method described here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/262 ... a-versions

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #26 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:08 am 
Judan
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John Fairbairn wrote:
...I seem now to be left high and dry with no sensible way to produce diagrams...

...Still, I'm hoping there's something out there that I've overlooked...

... Any specific suggestions would be welcome.


This thread seems to have lurched into a java-only solution.

If I were going to do it, I would generate the data from an SGF using the diagram generator at Sensei's ( https://senseis.xmp.net/tools/sgf2diagram.php ), then display that diagram on my screen here at L19, then cut-and-paste. Then I would use a graphics editor like gimp to increase the dpi.
That ought to give 200+ dpi images.

Sensei's is not big on copyrights, so I suspect that they won't object. And L19 won't object because I - as an admin - hereby formally give you permission to do so. Gimp is under gnu license.

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #27 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:21 am 
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Let's be honest now, the diagrams produced by Senseis are shite.

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #28 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:38 am 
Judan

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tj86430 wrote:
I have no problems having both Java 1.6 for GoWrite and 1.8 for everything else on MacOS 10.13.4


Many thanks. :)

Quote:
You should have different versions of java in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines:

Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ ls -la /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  5 root  wheel  160  9 Elo 09:18 .
drwxr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  128 27 Maa 00:31 ..
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel   96 15 Hei  2015 1.6.0.jdk
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel   96 15 Mar  2017 jdk1.8.0_131.jdk
drwxr-xr-x  3 root  wheel   96 11 Elo  2015 jdk1.8.0_51.jdk


Mine is similar, but with only Java 6:

$ ls -la /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 96 Feb 28 06:03 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 128 Feb 28 06:03 ..
drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 96 Jul 14 2015 1.6.0.jdk

Quote:
You should also have 1.8 in /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions:

Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ ls -la /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  4 root  wheel  128 19 Tam  2018 .
drwxr-xr-x  6 root  wheel  192 19 Tam  2018 ..
drwxr-xr-x  8 root  wheel  256 25 Huh 14:19 A
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel    1 19 Tam  2018 Current -> A


Looks the same.

$ ls -la /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 128 Feb 27 12:44 .
drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 192 Feb 27 12:44 ..
drwxr-xr-x 8 root wheel 256 Jun 11 18:49 A
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1 Feb 27 12:41 Current -> A

Quote:
Your java command in path should point to the latter one:

Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ java -version
java version "1.8.0_131"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_131-b11)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.131-b11, mixed mode)


Points to Java 6.

$ java -version
java version "1.6.0_65"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_65-b14-468)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 20.65-b04-468, mixed mode)

Quote:
Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ which java
/usr/bin/java


Same.

Quote:
Code:
MacBook-Pro-2:~ tj86430$ ls -la /usr/bin/java
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  74 19 Tam  2018 /usr/bin/java -> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java


Basically the same.

$ ls -la /usr/bin/java
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 74 Feb 27 12:43 /usr/bin/java -> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/java

Quote:
Yet GoWrite should be able to find the 1.6 it requires.

Deleting 1.6 should be simple, if you want to do that: just delete the entire directory /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/1.6.0.jdk

@Bill Spight: Drop me a PM if your configuration looks different and you want to sort it out

PS there are also other ways to manage Java versions on MacOS, e.g. the method described here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/262 ... a-versions


So I guess the thing to do now is to download and install the latest Java from java.com. Then the java command should point to that version.

If that's the case, then I guess the problems with the other Java program have a different reason. Hmmm.

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #29 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:26 am 
Oza

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Quote:
If I were going to do it, I would generate the data from an SGF using the diagram generator at Sensei's ( https://senseis.xmp.net/tools/sgf2diagram.php ), then display that diagram on my screen here at L19, then cut-and-paste. Then I would use a graphics editor like gimp to increase the dpi.
That ought to give 200+ dpi images.


I'd love to hear I'm wrong, but that doesn't make sense to me. A 200 dpi original contains a lot more image data than a 72 dpi original. Casting a 72 dpi original into 200 dpi format is just adding lots of white space and produces pixellation. Or is Gimp so intelligent that it can interpolate data?

Quote:
Sensei's is not big on copyrights, so I suspect that they won't object. And L19 won't object because I - as an admin - hereby formally give you permission to do so. Gimp is under gnu license.


SL is not big on observing other people's copyrights either, but copyright is irrelevant here. Using a pen to write a novel doesn't give the pen manufacturer any rights over your material.

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Post #30 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:34 am 
Judan

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John Fairbairn wrote:
Quote:
Sensei's is not big on copyrights, so I suspect that they won't object. And L19 won't object because I - as an admin - hereby formally give you permission to do so. Gimp is under gnu license.


SL is not big on observing other people's copyrights either, but copyright is irrelevant here. Using a pen to write a novel doesn't give the pen manufacturer any rights over your material.


Welcome to the digital age.

Digital Overlords wrote:
We own all your devices and all your data, according to our Terms of Service, which we can change at will. Mwa-ha-ha-ha!

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #31 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:57 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
Or is Gimp so intelligent that it can interpolate data?


Gimp isn't 'intelligent' in the way implied. It can't interpolate the data for a raster image.
Have a look at:
https://vector-conversions.com/vectoriz ... ector.html

Then you will see the trade-off of advantages and disadvantages. For the particular image characteristics of go board diagrams, vector graphics are a good fit. The superiority of infinite scaling to any output resolution, from a single image file, that is much smaller than any of the multiple raster images you need for matching multiple different resolutions for displaying raster images sharply on a variety of output devices.

It's not all gravy. The downside is the normal grief of working with something you are not used to. Persuading the container you insert the .svg file into to obey your wishes about scaling the image to the size you desire relative to the surrounding text.

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #32 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:56 am 
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Hi!
John Fairbairn wrote:
It's going off at a tangent, but there are lots of programmers here who write for other users rather than just themselves


In 2013~2014, I was asked by a friend of mine to help making a Go software a bit similar. My friend is teacher in a Chinese Go school for children, and they needed a tool to easily design and print tsumego or joseki, or board position, in small booklet to distribute homework for children. On top of that, they wanted the ability to use it as a virtual Go board, in the same way they would use their big magnet go board.

So for this program, the "magnet go board" metaphor was used: it was possible to add new black stones by left clicking, white stones by right clicking, and remove a stone by middle clicking. When designing/copying tsumego, it's common to have more stones from one colour than another, and the possibility to add all the black stones first, then the white stones after is handy. Then, there was a "mode" that could be toggled to activate numbering, so following stones would be numbered, and undo would undo the stones according to the reverse order.

So with a "magnet go board" metaphor, there is no such thing as history of moves, trees or variations. Also, it could not be used to open/export SGF files.

The important thing (in my opinion) was that, although they were not really good with computer skills, we did our best to work out "specifications" about what they needed (this was helped by me having spent quite a lot of time on site, so I knew how it would be used). Among the "specifications":
  • the diagram can be copy/pasted from the software to the Microsoft Word (in fact, WPS, a local clone) so no need to save, then import into Word
  • possibility to only show one part of the board (like top right corner only, or complete left side only)
  • possibility to have the goban in color, or black and white, or grey shades (depending on what they print, to save on ink)
  • a way to somehow "fix" the image resolution so that they can ensure the quality of diagrams is consistent. They were not tech savvy at all, and I implemented a way for them to set a fix number of pixel per goban intersection.
  • Maybe the usual marking (delta, stone) I don't really remember
  • should work on win xp
  • can be ran from an usb stick
  • later, they ask the possibility to save and reopen a position

John Fairbairn wrote:
I understand that is there is no incentive for developers. Go books are no longer popular in any format E.g. at one extreme I have an e-book that sells about 9 copies a year. Paper seems more popular, but you are still looking at 100-200 copies a year except for beginners' books. So there is little reason for a developer to expend energy on a rather tricky aspect of programming, especially as the "market" almost demands that programs be offered for free.


I did that for free, and should still have the sources somewhere on my computer, so if some of you are interested, I could release that on Github. (let's see if I can find it and put some screen-shot)

Now, my point is, there would probably be people willing to do such work for free, at least as a way to support the Go community. But I strongly advise you work out a list of specifications for what you need, and go in great details. It helped me a lot at the time, that I had spend hundreds of hours hanging out at their school, so I had witnessed how they teach children.
In comparison, I am clueless regarding the workflow needed to write a book :)

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #33 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:28 am 
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pnprog wrote:
But I strongly advise you work out a list of specifications for what you need, and go in great details.


I would be very, very interesting in such a list of real, concrete requirements from Go authors. Oh, and also from people who use an interactive board for lectures, either projected onto a wall, streamed, recorded, uploaded to YouTube or for something I've never even thought of. (I have seen far too many instances of KGS' Cgoban projected onto walls at tournaments.)

Excessive detail is not necessary and might even be counter-productive but, who knows, such requirements could bear fruit.


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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #34 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:47 am 
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I thought I would try to list my own requirements, inevitably I will omit important points.

That the software is fully supportive of SGF.4
That the export formats contain .eps and .svg
That I can create whole board and partial board diagrams
The ability to display move numbers
The ability to renumber moves
The ability to colour/greyscale the diagrams
Ko coverage - the diagram should contain information about (re)captures
The ability to add a Caption or Title to any diagram

It's quite a small list.

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Post #35 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:39 am 
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Javaness2 wrote:
That the software is fully supportive of SGF.4
That the export formats contain ... .svg


Woah! Careful!

Don't be putting those two next to each other or all the file-format standards engineers in the room will be incapacitated by the giggles. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Go diagram advice, please
Post #36 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:26 am 
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Charlie wrote:
Javaness2 wrote:
That the software is fully supportive of SGF.4
That the export formats contain ... .svg


Woah! Careful!

Don't be putting those two next to each other or all the file-format standards engineers in the room will be incapacitated by the giggles. ;-)


I can't really titter since it's not my field, but I can have a bit of a rethink on my requirements.
It would be nice to be able to take an editor and type some pseudocode
Code:
LAST 50 MOVES
TITLE Fig.2 (51-100)
LABEL a4,a b2,SQ o17,b

Then to have a diagram on the basis of that.

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