Bill Spight wrote:
But I was surprised that you only looked at Metta's plays. We really need to compare the variations in his play with the variations in others' plays. Also, output by other programs, such as Zen or LeelaZero/Elf would be good for comparison.
I have looked other's player moves also, you can see them in RSGF files.
They are much more different than Leela's, lot of moves outside suggestions, etc.
And why do we need to analyze other players?
Analysis should be made on play of one player in live and in internet games.
Bill Spight wrote:
You have discovered an important piece of evidence, Leela's top choice which is a blunder, but which Metta played. To have an amateur player who is playing well make a blunder is not all that unusual, but when that blunder is also the choice of a super strong program, that is unusual.
In other games of Metta I analyzed, there were life&death moves that were better than Leela's.
IE against Stankovic cut was not in the suggestions, in other game he connected his group on the left side on the first line.
So he can play L&D problems better than Leela.
Bill Spight wrote:
One thing we would like to know is how often Leela makes similar blunders.
It did make it this game, and as I mentioned previously, failed to see some moves in other games.
Bill Spight wrote:
Here is also where the choices of other strong programs, such as Zen, Golaxy, or Leela/Efi could be helpful to know. If they also choose that blunder, then the fact that Metta did too is not so significant. It would be a blunder that is easy to make, even if you are playing well. The choices of other strong amateurs would also be relevant, by the same token.
For those two games, it is very clear that he showed very large similarities to Leela's play, why would you analyze it with other programs?
It could make sense in other games where it is not similar to Leela.
Bojanic wrote:
Depending upon how he uses Leela, probably not, if the evidence is only statistical. There won't be enough data.
If that is the case, we can conclude that any online official games are pointless, since it is impossible to prevent cheating.