Hello!

I was wondering where is go considered an sport. I mean, is like chess, considered a mind sport and not just a game.

Thanks!

The question cannot be answered easily; it always is a question of "considered by whom". Since the IGF is a member of the IMSA / SportAccord, there are always some who consider go a mind sport. OTOH, not every state's law or bureaucracy would agree. (The same problem occurs for whether go is an art.) Such questions can be relevant for taxes, state support etc.

As for Germany, I think that the German state does not consider it a sport, does not consider it gemeinnützig, does not care whether it is a mind sport and has left it ambiguous or a case by case decision for individuals whether it is an art.

I think by the state.

There are a lot of grants and money support for chess, which is considered an sport for its long history. I was wondering which countries consider it as an sport, which international organisms and so on.

The BBC rejected the BGA's application to join their BBC Sport Get Inspired program. Quite rightly IMO, Go isn't a sport.

From Wikipedia



From this I would take it that the majority of people would not consider mind games to be sports (I am among them) but there is clearly a minority opinion that a few games are. If chess and bridge are included I see no reason why go should not be. But for state sponsorship I would think that it would have to be familiar to the majority of the population, even if they don't play. In most countries go clearly would not qualify on that count.

Go used to receive state sponsorship in Japan during the Edo period. Is that still the case?

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Hi lbalddy, that's a very interesting question.

At least in China and Japan, many people consider Go to be not "just a game."

Some Chinese websites, such as sina, list Go under their Sports section.

In Japan, I remember seeing at least one newspaper website list Go under Culture.

It maybe interesting to look at some of the Chinese vocabulary used for Go.
In Chinese, people usually don't use the term "game" ( 遊戲 ) for Go or chess.
Instead, the character used is qi ( 棋 ).
Similarly, the verb used when we engage in Go or chess is not "play" wan ( 玩 ), but xia ( 下 ).
I wonder if they have similar distinctions in Japanese ?

The status of Go also varies considerably in different countries.
The following is my first-hand experience. When I introduced a person as a Go pro,
here are the typical reactions in these three countries:

• U.S. *blank stare*.
• China. "Oh, they are pretty smart." (general feeling).
• Japan. "Wow!" (general feeling).

Related: Why do we play games?

If chess is a sport in Spain, considered like that, why not go?

That's the question. In all europe chess is considered a sport, why not go? If we consider it an sport we can promote it like that, and reach more people, not like just another board game.

Hi lbalddy, something to do with the hundreds and thousands of years of different cultures ?

How to promote Go is another very popular discussion here.
You can find threads with lots of interesting exchanges on this topic.

I'm not 100% sure how the process works, but I think for something to be considered a sport besides having some qualities (competetive nature,....) a sufficient push for it must be made. I'm sure if most of the european countries in question had go organizations whose member numbers could rival those of the respective soccer associations getting it approved as a sport would be pretty easy.

I think go will slowly overtake chess as the paramount mental game. This isn't going to happen overnight but as go becomes more and more prevalent in the West it will earn its deserved recognition.

Is it a sport, an art, or just a board game? Probably it is all three. Board games are usually activities that you enjoy every once in awhile with friends and family for fun. For some people this is exactly what go is, an entertaining game where they understand the basic rules and strategies of the game. A sport is something we usually take more seriously, spending many hours harnessing our skills. For amateur and professional athletes these activities take a good chunk of our time up. We do these sports for exercise, fun, money, competition etc. While art is a creative expression in which we design and manipulate to create a final product. Go can be considered any one of these three categories and in the end it depends on the player playing what go means to them.

Nice video btw on why we play games.

It's had some thousands of years, but it's hard to say it's the paramount mental game in either China or Japan. It seems Xiangqi and Shogi are more popular.

Xiang Qi and Sho Gi may be more popular to the masses, but that has always been true just as checkers and dominos are probably more popular than chess. Go is the game for intellectuals and the refined. Whether in the East or West your ask which game is more respected it is always the game of the intellectual. The noble arts of a gentleman included go not xiang qi. Benjamin Franklin wrote a treatise on the virtues of chess not checkers.

I'm more familiar with Japan where Shogi and Go seem equally respected to me.

I'm not familiar with Xiangqi vs Go in China.

In either case, I don't see Go ever surpassing Chess in the West. It would just be nice if it was close.

Agree and feel the same applies to physical sports. Also, have never really understood peoples resistance to seeing mind sport as sport. What difference does it make whether we are applying our bodies or minds to work in a chosen discipline? The opportunities for dedication, excellence, failure, inspiration are all there either way.

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"Tsumegos are for reading power and Tesujis for knowing which moves to read"

Not really. The word usually used was simply qi, but this has often been used for xiangqi as well as go (and likewise for yi). The meaning is really something like "intellectual board game". Gentlemen scholars wrote plenty of poems and books extolling the virtues of xiangqi. The first mention of the term in Tang times is unclear, and debate continues about other references. My impression is that which game wins the argument depends on whether you are a go player or a chess player, but there is no real reason to insist on choosing one over the other. Same with sex. There is also at least one reference that these arts were appropriate to young maidens, not just to gentlemen.

Shogi likewise has always been bracketed with go, so the dichotomy presented here is rather meaningless In Japan, too.

Go does, of course, score better than the chesses in the antiquity stakes, and that gives it a certain cachet, but for gentlemen and courtiers in Japan, China and Korea it was really a case of "I like all fruit but I am partial to apples" and not "I like apples therefore pears are yucky", or vice versa.

And in passing, go is not always one of the four arts. Although it seems to have been in the first use of the list (but as qi, recall), non-go players had different lists. Seal-cutting (nothing to do with Canadians who don't have clubs handy) was one skill sometimes touted for inclusion. And for Confucian scholars there were six accomplishments, which included charioteering, archery and mathematics, with no go at all.

The word we use to accurately and clearly describe it. I don't see why the word sport is so wonderful and all activities should aspire to be called sports*.

*Oh that money thing... But sport has bad things too like WADA.

Is mathematics a sport?
All the qualities you list are present, and it can be pretty competitive as well.

It depends on the definition of what is a "sport."
I we take a definition which includes anything resembling "physical activity" then neither go nor chess nor bridge are sports. But of course we can use other definitions, even make up our own one - so that we can make sure that it, for example, includes Go but not renju, or chess but not checkers, or whatever. I think it is pretty meaningless.

Like Uberdude says - I am not sure what is so desirable about being called "sport" and bunched with stuff like dressage or synchronized swimming. Sure, there is the better opportunity for any kind of official support, but...

Personally I think it better to try establishing another category ("mind competition" maybe, or however we want to call it) which includes go, chess, bridge, and all other mind games we want. And then we can lobby for it to reach similar status as "sport" wrt. any kind of state support. So it is not really about trying to plug Go into a specific category just to get some monies. I think it should be about making people and governments recognize the good value in such mental activities, just like they recognize good values in physical activities like the various sports.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

The philosopher Mendelssohn once said that he gave up playing chess because it was too serious to be a game, but not serious enough to be an occupation.

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Poka King of the south east.

Ed, thanks for this link!

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Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

Do you mean Moses Mendelssohn.
Indeed, many people are experts at finding excuses.

Anyone knows when professional chess became viable ?
( And much later than professional Go in Japan or China ? )