usagi wrote:
Bantari wrote:
Rank obsession has its roots in lack of humility
I think that's a terrible generalization, Bantari... I think it's put forward by people who use the moral high ground associated with it as an excuse not to work hard at improving at Go.
Interesting statements.
I agree that my statement is a generalization, but so is yours.
Also, I am absolutely uncertain why people would need an 'excuse' not to study Go. Its not like Go is your duty or something. Study it or not study it, its up to you, and nobody has the right to judge you for that. I don't understand your attitude here.
usagi wrote:
There's quite a difference in perspective here. In China some parents spend several hundreds of dollars a month to send their children to good go schools so they will become stronger. Every kid there knows his dan rank. I get the feeling it's a little more than just a game to those kids. I was taking signatures in grade 9 class the other day for the school's go club. In one class the names went like.. 2 dan.. 2 dan.. 3 dan.. 2 dan.. 5 dan.. 4 dan... these were 11 and 12 year olds.
Great, so?
In Soviet Union they had a farm system to breed chess players, or gymnast. They picked them up at schools, at very early age, and put them through some of the most professional and rigorous learning regime I can think of. The kids were taught to be great and strong and competitive like hell... a only a few of them made it - and they made it in a big way. The rest were dropped by the side of the road, scarred for life, forever failures. Some become couches, but many struggled with the rest of their lives. Soviets produced many outstanding athletes like that, but was it really good? I think it is a matter of opinion.
Another thing... What you describe in China might make sense if the parents are pushing the kinds towards a specific goal, like becoming a pro. I would assume that Go pros have a nice life in China, so that's one of the good ways to plan your kid's life. And then it might make sense to be slightly more competitive. I would assume kids then get better chances/teachers based on rank, so being obsessed by rank makes practical sense. From our perspective of a casual KGS player, such thinking makes no sense.
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Granted, not everyone wants to get stronger at this game. I'll point out the typical hat-wearing 5 dan who "doesn't want to get stronger", and takes many outspoken stances on the game and the people who play it. These sorts of people assume a moral high ground, justified by how they have somehow "transcended" the need to talk about rank or rating. There's a few reasons why.. some use this attitude to avoid having to play competitively, preferring to "enjoy" the game. Because it's true, playing on the edge is stressful and more like work than a game. Some use it as an excuse for their inability to improve. It's a terrible thing, to study the game with an open heart for years and simply not improve. I have seen people go into a shell, and it's sad. And I've seen a lot of bad advice get passed around about the game from people who really should know better.
I will just ignore the above as a purely personal attack.
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I think that for many people go isn't just a 'game'. Even to many amateurs. So it's wrong to assume that what works for one person's psychology is best for others. If you care about getting stronger at this game, really stronger, then you should focus on your rating compared to others and try to improve it. To do any less is to stagnate. It's simply not plausible to not care about rating if you want to play competitively. If you are weak you have to know it and deal with it. if you are unable to face yourself in this way you will not be able to improve.
If you are weak, you need to find out why you are weak, not what rank you have.
If you want to improve you need to figure out what knowledge you need, not what rank you are.
And yes, knowing your rank is nice, and has its uses. I never said otherwise.
But there is a difference between USING your rank, and between BEING GUIDED BY your rank, and even more so between BEING OBSESSED BY your rank. I never said 'don't use it', just the opposite... I just said: don't obsess about it.
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Then again, if you're just casual about the game, yeah that is fine too... I just want to point out the difference in perception here which it seems some have missed.
You seem to imply that if you are serious about Go you need to obsess about the rank.
Well, we just have to agree to disagree on that.
PS.
Just imagine how your attitude would make you feel if Go Goddess descended from heaven and told you that you don't have it what it takes to make it past the 1k you are now. I guess you would be devastated. I just shrug and keep enjoying the game. I prefer my way.