Do men play more aggressively against women?

karaklis · **#21**

El Teboso wrote:

cute girl for their avatar

That means the player is male.

El Teboso · **#22**

Peter Hansmeier · **#23**

FlamingMetroidzd wrote:

Hmm... I have yet to play a woman stronger than me (in person, whom I would know whether they be a woman). But with the ones I have played I tend to feel more guilt about destroying them. But perhaps this is because you can get that feeling from destroying any noobie.

While I was living in China I played a high school girl who completely controlled her game against me while giving me a four-stone handicap... in front of a classroom of dan players and a pro. One of many humbling moments in my life.

I agree that men play more aggressively when women are around (even just watching), and I would add that men seem to spectate more aggressively when a woman is playing. In Minnesota we get female players each year who show up to the club interested in the game, but with a few exceptions they all eventually leave. I think that the men smother them with attention and make them uncomfortable (too much kibitz and "advice"). Of course, we also have male players who stop showing up, so I could be wrong.

entropi · **#24**

A quote from Hayashi Kozo 6p (IMO the most sympathetic pro at the european go congress in tampere):

"Most important principle of middle game: While attacking, never look at you opponents face, if she is a young lady" :lol:

He said that in a lecture when reviewing his own game (a rapid game in team tournament I think) after having lost to a female Korean 7 dan player.

azrael · **#25**

Strangely, I tend to play more passively and peacefully when playing against females of my strength. Unless I am losing than I just jump right in and fight.

topazg · **#26**

There are games where you don't play aggressively? Surely not? I enjoy our games loads!

Suji · **#27**

Here's what I just thought of.

If I ever play a female that's about my level (I'm male), I would indeed play more aggressively. Hopefully, the female that I'm playing matches my aggression so that we both, regardless of the outcome, can be pleased with the game that we had just played.

Enink · **#28**

Well, I can't comment on the difference between playing M-M and playing M-F, since I'm a female player, and a pretty aggressive one, at that. I notice that in F-F games, my opponent tends to respond to my aggressive moves by playing solidly, whereas male players tend to respond by either following my moves or overplays. I'm trying to think mostly about my last tournament (US Open), so that might not be lifetime accurate.

shapenaji · **#29**

fwiffo wrote:

Getting onto a side topic which Magicwand has touched on; it may be that the relative strength of male and female professionals and the dearth of women at the highest levels can be accounted for only by lower rates of participation.

Take a population with a normal (bell curve) distribution of skill levels, and randomly divide that population into two groups, one significantly larger than the other. The very strongest members of the largest group are going to be significantly stronger than the members of the smaller group.

As an example, I wrote a quick simulation. 10,000 individuals, 15% "female" and 85% "male". I assigned them "skill levels" at random according to a normal distribution with a mean of 100 and standard deviation of 10. Running the simulation 10,000 times, the top 10 "men" averaged a "skill level" of about 133.1, and the top 10 "women" about 127.8. The ratio of men to women in professional chess is supposedly something like 16:1. Give my population that ratio and the top 10 men average 133.4 and the top 10 women average 124.6.

This study found that relative rankings of top male and female chess players is mostly consistent with this kind of effect. In other words, the difference between male and female skill levels in high level chess play can be mostly accounted for by participation rates.

^This needs to be repeated, it's amazing how often prejudices are simply built on a sampling bias.

WTG fwiffo for illustrating that there's no point in even discussing the differences in how men and women think if the bulk of the bias comes from elsewhere.

Wait till we get around a 50-50 make-up, if the differences continue, then there's something to talk about, until then, it's just speculation. (And dangerous speculation at that)

Bantari · **#30**

I do not have much experience playing against female players. But from what little experience I have, I did not notice any differences between a female of a certain rank and a male of the same rank. At least - no more that there are differences between different players of the same rank.

As a matter of fact, I have noticed myself playing different against females... well, maybe not really different, but with different expectations... somehow I EXPECT them to play differently, and thus each game against a female has a slightly different flavor for me and is somewhat special. Mostly my expectations are disappointed, though, and its just another game.

azrael · **#31**

topazg wrote:

There are games where you don't play aggressively? Surely not? I enjoy our games loads!

Maybe I don't play aggressively in fear of putting them off me personally. Probably the desperation of getting a girlfriend.

Still will try to win though.

gaius · **#32**

Way back, when I was younger and less experienced, at a few occasions I have tried to bully female players around the board, but it always went wrong... I found that, somehow, most female players around my strength I have played have had really violent styles themselves! Funnily enough, a lot of women around 10-20 kyu I've ever played had a tendency to play really peacefully, almost passively. Then again, every rule has its exceptions, so I try not to change my game plan either way.

Peter Hansmeier wrote:

In Minnesota we get female players each year who show up to the club interested in the game, but with a few exceptions they all eventually leave. I think that the men smother them with attention and make them uncomfortable (too much kibitz and "advice"). Of course, we also have male players who stop showing up, so I could be wrong.

Whether the beginners in question are male or female, this kind of unsolicited "helpful advice" is possibly the single most egregiously annoying thing that can happen when playing teaching games (or when two weak players play each other). To everybody reading this: PLEASE don't ever do that! A lot of beginners just play for fun, and really don't care for confusing discussions about the aji of a two-step ko in a certain corner shape.

I once tried playing a game of draughts with a few members of the local draughts club standing nearby (I am a beginner at draughts myself). Getting through that flood of kibitz and still remaining enthousiastic requires a lot of endurance - many beginners, including some really good people to have around, will not have that kind of endurance and will simply leave. A beginner's soul is tender. Be gentle to it.

kaliya · **#33**

I played only once against a woman in official matches, and I can say I didn't save any aggressiveness, as she started from the beginning tesujing me all over the board :lol:

The fight ended with her win by 6.5 mokus and with our friendship.

karaklis · **#34**

I checked my tournament stats and found out that I have excellent results against women (13:5) (and 3 of the 5 losses were against a single woman - must be because she's trained by our 1d forum member Jonas

). Against men I have practically a balanced result (29:25).

And the reason why I have such a good performance against women is not playing aggressively, but.....

....remains a secret ;-)

Do men play more aggressively against women?

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