pookpooi wrote:
Official announcement from DeepMind
https://twitter.com/demishassabis/statu ... 3282954240
https://twitter.com/demishassabis/statu ... 3282954240
Thank you!
Embedding the image from his tweet:
| Life In 19x19 http://lifein19x19.com/ |
|
| Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13913 |
Page 3 of 4 |
| Author: | pookpooi [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? |
Official announcement from DeepMind https://twitter.com/demishassabis/statu ... 3282954240 |
|
| Author: | Bonobo [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? |
pookpooi wrote: Official announcement from DeepMind https://twitter.com/demishassabis/statu ... 3282954240 Thank you! Embedding the image from his tweet: |
|
| Author: | hokusai [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? |
Here are some videos in which Master(P) won against Park Jeonghwan, Ke Jie, Iyama Yuta and Shin Jinseo: |
|
| Author: | mistakenot [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? |
dankenzon wrote: Look what Ali Jabarin (1p, Europe) just reported a few minutes ago in his facebook "6 pm pairing draw for Limin cup tomorrow morning, 5:58 I'm glued to Tygem watching some mysterious account beat Park Junghwan (again) after just beating Ke Jie twice in a row, oops late for the ceremony, meet ke jie who is also late from watching the game on the way to the ceremony and he is a bit shocked.. just repeating "it's too strong". Dunno whether it's alphago or not but it's definitely some strong computer with 20-0(and counting) score against top pros, go check out Master(P) on Tygem." pookpooi wrote: Official announcement from DeepMind https://twitter.com/demishassabis/statu ... 3282954240 Might be a good time to update the thread title to something more informative? So people don't continue to accidentally skip the thread. Maybe something like: "AlphaGo/Master(P) undefeated in 60 online blitz games vs top pros". OP or a moderator, interested in changing the thread title? |
|
| Author: | pookpooi [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? |
My impression is that how AlphaGo is able to play in Japanese rule with 6.5 komi Are they force AlphaGo? And degrading performance is acceptable since it's already way ahead of top pro. Or they train with new data to play specifically with Japanese rule. Or they do something, like unsupervised training, self-train from scratch, that can be flexible in rule and komi? |
|
| Author: | clemi [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
Regarding Game 55 - Chen Yaoye, there's a funny anecdote to it. It was in fact Chen Yaoye and Meng Tailing playing both against Master (although the decision was always Chen's to make) during a live session at Weiqi TV. Here's the first part where Chen Yaoye and Meng Tailing talk about their respective games and their feelings when waiting for Nie Weiping's game to finish : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUFZLxj_u70 And here's the backstage as the match was going on : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BknZMjTpqmY During the game, around minute 8, there is a funny part that translates like this after Master plays the keima in response to the pincer : Meng Tailing : and what about the kosumi ? is it playable (shi bu shi qi = (literally) is it go) ? Chen Yaoye : (muttering) no, that's not playable Meng Tailing : (after Chen Yaoye protects the corner) and now, if white presses you down, do you play it ? Chen Yaoye : i don't know and later in the game (forgot where) : Meng Tailing : (again) why not play this move ? Chen Yaoye : no Meng Tailing : what's your refutation ? how does white respond ? Chen Yaoye : i don't know... doesn't feel like the right move... Meng Tailing : (laughing) oh sh** ! 
|
|
| Author: | Bonobo [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
German IT news site “Golem” links to this thread in L19 in an article about AlphaGo  http://www.golem.de/news/deep-mind-alph ... 25415.html |
|
| Author: | DrStraw [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
Bonobo wrote: German IT news site “Golem” links to this thread in L19 in an article about AlphaGo http://www.golem.de/news/deep-mind-alph ... 25415.html So if you linked back to it then we have a circular link. Will the internet crash?
|
|
| Author: | xiayun [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
Meng Tailing reviewed his first game against Master: Expect him to review the rest in future episodes, although he did say he performed the best in this first game and attributed part of that to not knowing it's a computer AI yet. The exchange in the upper-right was a highlight, where he believed he got much closer after falling behind in the first 50 moves. Seeing what happened at the 33:19 mark was pretty crazy too. |
|
| Author: | Cassandra [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:15 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! | ||
According to CrazyStone's analysis, this game was one of a very few "untypical" ones of the series, as it was "undecided" until late into the game (approx. move 180). Usually, the "point of no return" is much earlier in the games (please refer to viewtopic.php?p=215477#p215477 for diagrams).
|
|||
| Author: | Cassandra [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:52 am ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! | |||
Please find attached CS's result of its analysis with "depth=high".
|
||||
| Author: | Monkey [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
Cassandra wrote: According to CrazyStone's analysis, this game was one of a very few "untypical" ones of the series, as it was "undecided" until late into the game (approx. move 180). Usually, the "point of no return" is much earlier in the games (please refer to viewtopic.php?p=215477#p215477 for diagrams). Which game are you referring to? |
|
| Author: | Cassandra [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:47 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! | ||
"This" game, which is the basis for the diagrams above, is game #9. Please find attached a diagram that shows the averages of "P (B wins)" for AlphaGo as Black and as White. EDIT: Adjusted the diagram following ez4u's suggestion below. "1-White" is the mirrored curve for "AlphaGo as White". It is above "AlphaGo as Black", which can be interpreted that AlphaGo plays better with White than with Black (this was also said at the Lee-Sedol-time).
|
|||
| Author: | Bonobo [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
Yet another IT Web site links to this thread—this time it’s Ars Technica! Sebastian Anthony on Ars Technica wrote: [..] Over the last week, a number of forum threads have popped up to discuss this mystery debutante who has been thrashing the world's best players. [..]
|
|
| Author: | ez4u [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
Cassandra wrote: "This" game, which is the basis for the diagrams above, is game #9. Please find attached a diagram that shows the averages of "P (B wins)" for AlphaGo as Black and as White. "1-Black" is the mirrored curve for "AlphaGo as Black". It is above "AlphaGo as White", which can be interpreted that AlphaGo plays better with White than with Black (this was also said at the Lee-Sedol-time). I think you should invert White rather than Black to make your comparison. You would then have lines for the probability AG wins as Black versus the probability AG wins as White. In any case, we see that the winning probability is higher playing White from the very beginning. The immediate interpretation would seem to be that komi is too large and gives White an advantage. This is consistent with many players' opinion based on human vs human play. The lines seem very consistent over the first 150+ plays. If AG were better playing White, the gap between the lines should diverge move by move. This does not seem to happen to any significant extent. How should we interpret the changes that occur around move 165? Is it AG changing its evaluation process as the winning probability grows too large? Is it desperation appearing in the opponents' play? Anyway, very interesting information. Well done! 
|
|
| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:34 am ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! | ||||
Please find below the results of CS's analysis (depth="high") for some of the "longer" games. Scaling for both axis is identical in all the diagrams. I am not strong enough to correlate this "bot view" with the judgement of a strong human player. However, one idea might be that the diffences in the graphs are affected by the number of territories during the games ? Please note that the "score" in game #9 did never exceed 10 points, which seems to be quite unique here (#36 was in this range for most of the game, especially in the phase before the "point of no return"). On the other hand, Gu Li's large moyo strategy in game #60 was not "praised" by CS.
|
|||||
| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:35 am ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! | |||
...
|
||||
| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:43 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! | ||
For those who are interested in, please find attached the exports of CS's analysis of the five games mentioned above.
|
|||
| Author: | uPWarrior [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
ez4u wrote: In any case, we see that the winning probability is higher playing White from the very beginning. The immediate interpretation would seem to be that komi is too large and gives White an advantage. This is consistent with many players' opinion based on human vs human play. The lines seem very consistent over the first 150+ plays. If AG were better playing White, the gap between the lines should diverge move by move. This does not seem to happen to any significant extent. The only thing we can conclude is that Crazy Stone prefers white. We know nothing about AlphaGo's perceived winning probability. |
|
| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who's playing in Tygem? -- It was AlphaGo!! |
uPWarrior wrote: The only thing we can conclude is that Crazy Stone prefers white. Yes, indeed, it seems that there is an offset. I did not consider this. |
|
| Page 3 of 4 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|
