Do you want to become stronger? Why?

hyperpape · **#21**

hyperpape wrote:

I want to become stronger. So far, being stronger has meant understanding more things, and seeing new things is interesting. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether I'm passionate. I've spent a lot of time on go over the years, but there have only been a few times when I was working hard.

I forgot to mention that I am also vain and shallow and prideful and all of those other things.

sorin · **#22**

Why not?

daal · **#23**

sorin wrote:

Why not?

Actually, this is a pretty good answer. Go is a competitive game, and wanting to become stronger is just normal. The real question is: Are you willing to work to get stronger, or would you rather wait and see if it magically happens - which it sometimes does.

Kirby · **#24**

sorin wrote:

Why not?

Well, I've come to realize more and more these days that life is short. So it seems to make sense spending time on activities that are worthwhile. As daal points out, it may be possible to become stronger in some cases without investing time or effort, but if I'm going to spend my time on something, it seems important that the activity have some positive aspect.

Since starting this thread, I keep thinking to myself of the analogy of physical exercise. From that perspective, I can come up with a simple reason to try to work toward becoming stronger: it makes me feel good. Physical exercise has the same effect. I don't anticipate that I'll ever be in the Olympics or win a marathon. But stretching myself physically makes me feel good. Now, there may be some science behind the chemical activity that happens with exercise, which accounts for making a person feel good. Maybe that same form of chemical activity isn't present in a mental exercise, such as studying go.

Nonetheless, looking back, when I'm studying go or trying to become better, I'd say that I have some happiness from the activity.

And that's probably sufficient.

jeromie · **#25**

Yes, I want to become stronger.

I desire to get better at anything I do, especially if there is a way to quantify progress. If I run, I want to go farther and faster. If I play music, I want to take note of my progress on a piece. I always have a desire to improve.

Go is special, though. For most of my life, I have cycled through my hobbies. I'll spend a lot of time pursuing something that interests me, and then take a break from it and invest that time in something else. This pattern comes naturally to me, but it doesn't reflect who I want to be. I have a desire to be a person who chooses a few things and sticks with them. I don't want to step away from a hobby when my attention wanders or the going gets tough.

A few years ago, I decided to try to stick with go. And for the last three years, I have. The intensity with which I have studied the game has varied based on life's demands, but I've never left it completely. Go is not the most important thing in my life, but it does represent an important aspect of who I want to be. I desire to make steady progress in the game, at least in part, to demonstrate the fruit of dedication.

Calvin Clark · **#26**

If you want something concrete, Kirby, maybe become strong enough to enjoy the ambiance of the strong players room at USGC? Of course it varies from year to year, depending on the size of the room and the attendance and the particular tournaments going on. Maybe AGA 4d can get lucky and have a game scheduled there if the opponent is 6d, but the number of boards is limited and it may be getting harder.

For me, wanting to get stronger is not so much about the number. I beat a couple of Tygem 2d players and that felt like an accomplishment for about 10 seconds, because I know it is meaningless.

Go is one of the few activities which can bring me a flow experience. Most other things are too boring or the kind of stress I don't want.

I am starting to realize that even some of the simplest shapes one can put on the board require dan-level reading to resolve. Playing them out is gambling. My game is probably 95% gambling in this sense. I think it would be fun and enlightening to get it down to 80%.

hyperpape · **#27**

Life is short, but it's a big step from there to saying you must figure out which things are "worthwhile". Few people are out on this Earth to accomplish something, and those people are not necessarily lucky. Most of us are just here to spend some time trying to live a decent life.

If you have a goal beyond the ordinary in life, you probably don't have time for Go, except as an occasional diversion. If you don't, it's probably good enough if you enjoy the game, and aren't neglecting your family, your job and your community.

Kirby · **#28**

Why not try to spend time in a worthwhile manner? It's a limited resource, so I'd think it makes sense to spend it efficiently on activities that I think have value (i.e. worthwhile).

For example, if I have only $10 to spend at the store, I'd like to spend it on what I value the most, rather than something random.

hyperpape · **#29**

Good example. Of course, I don't think you should spent $10 on anything at the store. But you can also drive yourself to madness trying to optimize your spending (It's been years since I've read it, but http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ used to inspire a strange combination of awe and revulsion in me).

I sometimes find that it's midnight, and I've spent the last two hours following links to read up on some stupid controversy that I'll never think about in two days. That's a waste of time, and I'd be better off going to bed and waking up feeling rested. But that's easy and obvious. It's a far cry from saying that I sometimes do things that don't bring me anything useful to saying that I need to evaluate everything I do for being "wortwhile".

I keep putting "worthwhile" in quotation marks because if it just means "do I like doing this?", that's a fine question to ask. Sometimes we realize we've been doing something joylessly, and we need to give it up. But most of the time, we don't have to even ask that question.

You seem to be looking for some kind of answer that says either "Yes, Kirby, you should play go", or "No, Kirby, stop playing go". I don't think you're going to find it. I you find something that holds your attention more than Go, that might be a sign that it's time to spend more time there. But you've stuck with it for a long time already (seven years on these boards, right?), so there's a good chance you're in it for the long haul.

Please don't take this as disparaging. I don't mean for it to be. If you want to keep asking yourself this question, that's ok. I just have my doubts you'll find an answer that lives up to what you're hoping for.

Edited: added the third paragraph.

dutchie · **#30**

I want to become strong enough that I can repay the debt I owe to the community incurred by having

Kirby · **#31**

@hyperpape:
Yes, pretty much I mean, "do I like doing this" when I say "worthwhile".

I know that nobody is going to tell me to "yes, play go" or "no, do not play go".

Mainly, the intention I had in this thread was to gather concrete reasons people had for wanting to get stronger. Those reasons, perhaps, I could use as inspiration.

While others have pointed out that passion is not necessary for studying, I find it more enjoyable when I have passion for what I'm learning. And maybe more efficient, too.

I figured that, maybe, people would have reasons for aiming to get stronger that could give me a new perspective, which could, in turn, lead to more passion.

In general, I'd like to have more passion in my pursuits, but a common scenario I find myself in is:
1.) I reach some level of competency in something
2.) My passion dies down, and I become somewhat satisfied or complacent with further improvement.

It's not just with go. My work is like this, too. I gain some level of competency, maybe get promoted a couple of times, then my interest dies down; I could aim to be promoted again or get more money, but it's a little boring. If I already have a good amount of money X, does it matter if I make 120% of X? Kind of, but not that much. Or if I already have Y expertise and feel somewhat capable, do I need 120% of Y expertise?

I kind of feel, "Meh - why not?". But this is far from passion.

One answer is to pursue a new endeavor and learn something new. That's not a bad idea.

But somehow, I feel an emptiness or shallowness in pursuing several endeavors without knowing any well.

Being a "jack of all trades, but master of none" can perhaps allow me to maintain the passion and fresh feeling of learning new things. But sometimes I wonder if I'd gain a deeper happiness by learning something deeply.

In that sense, maybe I just need discipline. Or perhaps I should focus on the positive aspects of learning something deeply, trusting that it will eventually lead to greater enlightenment...

Or maybe I just think too much about what's "worthwhile", and I should just study :-)

Bantari · **#32**

Looking back at my Go life wrt motivation I can divide it into 3 separate periods:

1. As a weak kyu player, I wanted to improve so I could understand more of the game - mainly what the heck the stronger players were talking about when they were discussing their games. Where I grew up, the club I played in had a wide spread of players, from absolute beginner (me) to a visiting 1d player from Japan. In-between were a few SDK players. So when anybody talked about Go, I was lost - and that bothered me. Also, the feeling of constant tangible improvement was intoxicating - I really loved that. But you can only feel that when you are very weak.

2. When I reached high kyu level (3-1k) I started playing in a bigger clubs (mainly due to moving to Germany, the Canada, then US) - and i discovered a 'buddy' system. I always had a friend, just slightly stronger then me, maybe a stone or two at most, and my motivation to improve was derived from the will to beat him and surpass him. When I did, I moved on to a next target. And sometimes the friend I left behind piggy-backed me and I had to chase him again. This was fun!

3. I peaked around 5d AGA and realized that it takes a lot of effort to stay at that level and even more effort to improve. It as not enough to have fun and play games anymore. And I was not willing to do it. Also, life came in- between, job, marriage, house... I did not have time anymore to play Go every day. On top of that, my strong friends from the club stopped coming (on account of jobs) so I did too. And I really could never take on-line games very seriously. No feeling to it, for me.

And that's that. Right now, I really do not feel the need to get stronger. But if I looked for motivation, I think the one that would work for me would be to figure out how strong I can really get if I applied myself - since I never really did. Could I make it back to 5d? Sure... Could I get to 6d? I am confident I could. Could I make 7d? Dunno... possibly. Beyond that? It would be exciting... And this would be what would drive me - to see how far I can get if I put my mind to it.

Maybe one day... heh.