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 Post subject: Re: The future of Human vs Computer Go in a post-AG world.
Post #41 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:48 am 
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Tapani wrote:
So how do you start when you study a new language? By memorizing!

No intelligent activity is possible without having some memory, so the question is if this (and the "rote" part) is more characteristic in go than in other activities?

I think that instead of memorization, sequences (not joseki) that often repeat are a result of directed or hinted minimaxing. Many players only look out for some key moves and dangers which makes "reading" (if this can still be called) out the sequence much easier and maybe even unnoticeable. OC you can still say that those key moves or patterns were memorized, but I doubt this leads to the right direction.

Incidentally, this is similar to what made computer go so strong by now. Although (random) MC alone is not really useful in go (it measures something completely different than the value of a position), the addition of the extra networks made it possible to do meaningful minimaxing for the first time. And the power of a reasonable global reading can be overwhelming!

Tapani wrote:
Cramming vocabulary and sample sentences.
...
I guess the method of learning a language before you have one must differ from learning your second language? Or has it to do with age of learning?

Mostly with the method of learning you choose. There are language learning systems that aim at a more child-like learning process (but these have their own problems as grownups' brain works a bit differently than children).

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Human vs Computer Go in a post-AG world.
Post #42 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:39 pm 
Honinbo

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Sorry, I did not see this earlier. :(

Cassandra wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
I have my doubts about the B-18 point, however.

Don't you think that a black move at this point results in a living shape ?


So would a sagari. We have different perspectives. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Human vs Computer Go in a post-AG world.
Post #43 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
So would a sagari. We have different perspectives. :)

I don't think so. At a special moment, we are just looking at different sections of the whole shape issues' picture (or have these in mind).

Of course, there is more to consider than only the central points of dead shapes inside. Holes and defects in the outer encirclement are also important. As are potential lines of false eyes. And the 1-2-points in the corner. And the number of liberties. ...

However, you will have to excuse that I am not really fit for the "J-group". My current work on tsume-go is restricted to groups with a potential eye space up to six points ...
;-)

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Human vs Computer Go in a post-AG world.
Post #44 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:47 pm 
Honinbo

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Cassandra wrote:
However, you will have to excuse that I am not really fit for the "J-group".


Oh, it's not like I am, either. ;)

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