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 Post subject: Improvement???
Post #1 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:30 pm 
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I've been practicing for weeks and months. Yet I don't seem to be improving. I am forcing myself to read out tsumego to the end and I only solve a few. I already played probably 100 games now. I go through games. yet I forget the first 5 moves. I try to analyse my games but I can only do it myself because I can't get leela zero or any go engines working. Any tips/suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #2 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Tsumego: find sets that are easy enough so that you can solve correctly at least 50% of them, and do them several times until the solutions seem natural to you.

Games: when you play a new game, try to focus on one idea until it becomes natural.

If you don't know which part of the game to work on, post a game on this forum and you will get help.

P.S. Maybe interesting to read: http://users.eniinternet.com/bradleym/I ... Index.html


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Post #3 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:18 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Echia,

DeepLeela, a browser-based bot UI.

As mentioned, post your games here for reviews.


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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #4 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:07 pm 
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If you like reading Go books, I suggest Janice Kim's Learn to Play Go series. I used it when I started and it helped a lot. :study:

https://www.amazon.com/Learn-Play-Go-Ma ... 1453632891

Also, do you only play online? It's helpful to play with people when you start, so looking for a Go club near you could be worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #5 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:51 am 
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Besides playing, books, problems, self-review if you can detect some of your mistakes, there can be countless reasons why you do not improve (yet). Show some of your games to some experienced players or teachers. They will tell you your greatest weaknesses to be overcome. If you play online, not improving might also just be an indication of a server's insufficient ranking / rating system, provided you should win more than 50%. Beware that go is a game with a steep learning curve; improvement is very much harder than for most other games. However, beginners not improving at all are rare. Get your advice and chances are great that you will improve.

The top-most mistake of absolute beginners might be not to see what happens after 2 or 3 moves. If your groups die, you need to learn the very basics of making two eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #6 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:24 am 
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Hi

What is your true motivation for playing go and your desire to improve?


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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #7 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:44 pm 
Tengen

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Very basic question, which somewhat echoes something Robert said: why do you think you’re not improving?

I didn’t improve very quickly early on, then I reached a point it where it went faster. That’s not to say my progress was ever rapid, but I did have a point where it seemed to speed up a little.

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Post #8 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:37 pm 
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I've been thinking about Knotwilg's question (good approach, really struck me!) since yesterday - and my personal answer stays the same:
Because the board looks nice.

This was my reason for becoming interested in Go, and because it is stupid to have a game board without being able to play, I'm here to learn.
(I have a cardboard goban with plastic chip stones, but I'd be thrilled to have a wooden board with glass stones etc one day!!)

Not sure if this is a motivation that will carry.
But playing has a strong pull - I forget everything else.

Echia, I'm 30+k.
Would you like to pair up to support each other (and maybe play each other, it will be short and motivating for you, unless you tend to get upset about your opponent making mistakes; do you know "Idiot Bot" on OGS? My play is a bit like that.)

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I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

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Post #9 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:38 pm 
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I teach many kids and I observe a wide variety in improvement rates. In the beginning (starting on 9x9 as 40k), some improve as much as 10 ranks per 50 games while others improve as little as 1 rank per 50 games. Besides the amount of practise, I think there are several cognitive, social and emotional factors involved in these differences.

Anyway, I think an important question is if you enjoy playing this game even when improvement is slow. Everybody stops improving eventually. Is improvement the only thing that matters, or are there other things you like about this game?

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Post #10 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:24 am 
Honinbo
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Quote:
some improve as much as 10 ranks per 50 games while others improve as little as 1 rank per 50 games.
:tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #11 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:40 am 
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From what I have seen, the time it takes for that initial improvement has no influence on how people will be able to progress later. Some people just "get it" right away and then get stuck later, others progress slowly at first but then go through the ranks steadily.


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Post #12 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:12 am 
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There's a proverb I've heard people use:

Quote:
Loose your first 1000 games fast.


One of the things that I take from it is that while you're learning, I would try to be less concerned with the win/loss result and more concerned with trying to take some small learning away from as many games as possible. You might be under/over ranked but I wouldn't worry too much - it will reflect your true strength eventually.

I'm also a big fan of playing small board games (typically 9x9 then 13x13) a lot before rushing to 19x19. You will likely get through games much faster that way and probably learn more about the tactical essentials before you worry about broader strategy ideas.

Codexus wrote:
From what I have seen, the time it takes for that initial improvement has no influence on how people will be able to progress later. Some people just "get it" right away and then get stuck later, others progress slowly at first but then go through the ranks steadily.


I'll second this too.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement???
Post #13 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 am 
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There is no size fits all best way to learn go.

For most people, the "lose a bunch of games" works, and also it helps to begin with a smaller board. I slightly disagree that what is learned at 9x9 translates best to the full size board. I think 13x13 might be better for that --- what is a safe shape AND how what is in one area affects the rest of the board.

For some very few people, they might actually be able to learn from books that show:
basic shapes that live or die
proverbs (fundamental principles)
looking at games --- NOT master games but low kyu games, especially if commented, mistakes pointed out


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