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 Post subject: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #1 Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:16 am 
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Does anyone know if this match will be available via some stream in the west with decent commentary?

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #2 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:15 pm 
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Kim Yoonyoung is gonna stream it on Twitch tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #3 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:43 pm 
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Didn’t see the game live, but checked cyberoro and it looks like Lee Sedol won the first match.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #4 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:02 pm 
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Lee won in under 100 moves, he captured Handol in a net (in which some surrounding stones couldn't be captured in a ladder, which might have confused the bot). But it still seems a kinda dumb way for the bot to lose. For example LZ can see the net after just a few thousand playouts (I would expect at least 100 thousand for a match like this), and for example wanted to play m4 at l7 instead which would have avoided the shortage of libs leading to the ladder/net of the game. Nevertheless, Lee's move 78 (again the magic number!) was a nice tesuji. Does anyone know how strong Handol is? The first I'd heard of it was this match. There was another Korean bot DolBaram which has been a regular of bot competitions which I think is weaker than LZ.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #5 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:15 am 
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Well, in 'Yoon's Baduk Cafe' there is a video of a review of Handol vs Leela Zero where Handol won

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U6199vSWZY

Handol got 3rd place in this 2019 AI championship


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #6 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:11 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Does anyone know how strong Handol is? The first I'd heard of it was this match. There was another Korean bot DolBaram which has been a regular of bot competitions which I think is weaker than LZ.


Lee Sedol, if I recall correctly!, did say a month ago that he expected to lose all the games against HanDol. So my expectations of HanDol were higher.


Last edited by Uberdude on Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
fixed quote

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #7 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:16 am 
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http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20191218000277

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Post #8 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:38 am 
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Quote:
Lee Sedol, if I recall correctly!, did say a month ago that he expected to lose all the games against HanDol.
Possibilities include:
  • He wasn't sufficiently informed ( re: AlphaGo ) ;
  • He was being diplomatic ;
  • He was managing expectations ;
  • He was being truthful ;

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #9 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:10 am 
Judan

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Yeonwoo already has a video on the game:


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #10 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:23 am 
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Lee Sedol reached super-AI strength.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #11 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:11 am 
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Lee Sedol = John Connor

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #12 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:31 am 
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:b82: at L5 is a blindspot of Katago.

But even without this blindspot, Katago believe black played nicely, losing very little of his initial advantage

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #13 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:02 am 
Honinbo

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Some of the Korean articles are noting that move 78 was a clever move; I guess it makes a headline due to the same move number for gave 4 of the alphago series.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #14 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:06 am 
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Regarding strength of HanDol, some articles are saying it's above ELO 4500? (e.g. https://news.joins.com/article/23660254) Says it's stronger than AlphaGo Lee and the master AI that Ke Jie played.

Not sure how they measured that, or if it's accurate, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #15 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:18 am 
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4,5XX is still lower than 4,858 of AlphaGo Master, but they measure in different pool so...

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #16 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Elo ratings with no reference to the specific rating system are not actually comparable. It's like saying an object has a temperature of 150 degrees without mentioning the scale (Celcius, Kelvin, Fahrenheit or something else).


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #17 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:49 pm 
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pookpooi wrote:
4,5XX is still lower than 4,858 of AlphaGo Master, but they measure in different pool so...


Article says that it's "above 4500", which is ambiguous. And it says that it's higher level than AlphaGo Master. But I haven't found anything at all that talks about how they measured, etc., so I wouldn't consider the ELO number here authoritative in any way. Just mentioning it, because I saw it in a few articles.

gennan wrote:
Elo ratings with no reference to the specific rating system are not actually comparable. It's like saying an object has a temperature of 150 degrees without mentioning the scale (Celcius, Kelvin, Fahrenheit or something else).


Agree that there's not much meaning.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #18 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:57 pm 
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By the way, I read that, since Lee Sedol won the first game, his next game on the 19th will be without the 2-stone handicap (they're adjusting as they go based on who wins or loses). Third game will be on the 21st.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #19 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 pm 
Judan

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Here's an even game Handol played vs Shin Jinseo on 23rd Jan this year, from https://youtu.be/xeSbHWbHA98. Looks like it played a pretty solid game, just waiting for Shin to make mistakes (e.g. not hane d13) and it didn't make any of equivalent magnitude so won smoothly.



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Shin Jinseo vs Handol.sgf [131.94 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol v HanDol
Post #20 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:01 am 
Judan

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The second game was a smooth win for Handol.

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