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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Position in Nongshim Cup Dispute
Post #21 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:10 am 
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It is one reason I really hate a Go ruleset with diagrams presenting only local shapes being announced. It is usually due to the lack of effort, and it can lead to many confusions and speculations. I prefer the whole board shape, even in 9x9 or 13x13 board, be included in the diagram.

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Jaeup Kim
Professor in Physics, Ulsan National Institute of Science and Technology, Korea
Author of the Book "Understanding the Rules of Baduk", available at https://home.unist.ac.kr/professor/jukim/bbs/board.php?bo_table=notice&wr_id=5

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Position in Nongshim Cup Dispute
Post #22 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:38 pm 
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jaeup wrote:
I actually checked both the English and Chinese versions when writing my book. But the Chinese version I looked up also had the same shape without the outer White stones (pdf file attached), and I never thought that there could possibly be a mistake. I assume Chinese Qiyuan distributed the wrong version at some time, and it is not the translator's fault.

In any case the 1988 version seems more hintful about its logic, beyond listing examples with verdicts. Also thanks for the link on the incident of suboptimal draw with moonshine life (apparently legal, not prevented by superko or the referee). Together with "at the end of the game" this hints how they mean superko "principle".

Both that incident and the Nongshim dispute shows that most players only know basic rules. Which is understandable, so instead the rules themselves need to be more faithful to those basics. Asian rules at least try this for most cycles (except moonshine mess).

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Position in Nongshim Cup Dispute
Post #23 Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:39 pm 
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I like the fact that these stones are not dead under Korean rules. The life and death status of groups should be based on what can actually be done with actual moves and passes, so I feel moonshine life should always be considered alive, in fact I personally feel the best solution is simply to score the game as is at the end of the ko cycle.

We derive things like two eyes to live from our experience on what a group needs to live. It's silly to then apply it backwards, saying something like a group must have two eyes to be considered alive, and any other ways of being alive we won't consider, regardless of whether in actual play it lives or not

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Position in Nongshim Cup Dispute
Post #24 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:54 am 
Judan

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jann wrote:
a huge typo in Jasiek's English copy of the 2002 version (outer W stones missing in dia 4 - cf. in Chinese). The 1988 version shows the correct original of the same example (dia 5 there).


I host the file but, of course, have not created it and its typo. Thank you for pointing it out!

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