Actually, I was not referring to grammar edits, which are almost always innocuous. I was talking about edits that destroyed or altered the context of certain material, thereby altering its meaning.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I like SL. Often, I don't actually use it to look up specific information, but pick a random page and then "hop" from page to page, based on interesting sounding hyperlinks or linked sub/follow-up pages. Not surprisingly, I frequently do the same with Wikipedia. It's inevitable that I learn something new, even if it may be trivial, so it's a bit like an educational trip into the unknown wilderness of knowledge buried on the web.

(Hmm, now that I think about it, I did the same already as a child, just with encyclopedias and dictionaries.)

If you want to see one of the things wrong with SL, look at the just posted "Bent Seven in the Corner is Dead". Having signed articles would help combat this type of moronic behaviour.

I think that page is a (failed) attempt at humo[u]r. It's not linked from anywhere else on sensei's, so I don't think it's causing a great deal of harm...

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

I agree with your evaluation of that particular "article" but I don't blame SL for it. I doubt that having signed articles would make much difference even if "nicks" and "handles" were forbidden and only real names allowed. After all there are plenty of moronic postings on L19x19. That sort of thing is hard to avoid on the internet. As for "Bent Seven", waste of server storage though it is, it is flagged as humour and will most likely sink without much of a trace eventually. Actually, articles like that and the B-2 Bomber material are probably a reflection of people, likely rather young people, who don't really understand the game and are expressing their lack of self esteem and confidence.

This sound like a great idea to me. A new forum is easy to make.

But what about the admins/owners at the SL end? Is it ok with them? After all, we are talking about coopting some of the functionality of their site. Also, it seems to imply that some of the results of discussions here would end up being achived there, thus using a lot more of their disk space.


ANY SL ADMINS/OWNERS READING THIS? IF SO, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

I don't think this adds anything of value to SL.

My biggest question is, why are so few SL contributors 4d+?

Why are the top players completely disinterested in submitting authoritative content?

It would be nice if some would answer with what they need as incentive. It can't be that they're holding out for the amazing book deals...

I think many strong amateurs don't feel all that "authoritative" about a lot of things, for one point. For another point, answering specific questions based on opinions is relatively easy, writing good authoritative articles is much more difficult. For a third point, the basic ground has been covered fairly well on SL and no one wants to repeat things. Two things that I think are much needed on SL are (1) maintenance and repair of corrupted articles, and (2) organization and making things more easily accessible. The former is somewhat boring (but necessary), the latter, again, is difficult.

Truthfully it's just not worth it. You're right, the book deals aren't there, and it's not a lot of fun sitting in front of a computer and typing for the length of time necessary to put together good stuff. If you want good stuff online, the best way is probably to get a lesson from a strong player, ask the questions you want and then post something authoritative online yourself.

I submitted authoritative content.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Why?

I am one of the librarians

_________________
Promotor and Librarian of Sensei's Library

As a user, I think I prefer to keep SL discussions/content on SL. After seeing what happened to GD, it would break SL if L19 went down and suddenly all the "interactive" discussion content would be lost. (Not saying I expect this, especially since L19 isn't just a one-man project, but it's a concern.)

An alternative approach might be to keep the discussions on SL more restricted to the /discussions sub pages rather than having them inside, or at the bottom, of the content pages.

Strong players get strong by playing and learning, not writing and teaching, that's why.

Since we all play Go for fun, it would stand to reason to assume that strong players, taking into account the above statement, have more fun playing and learning than writing and teaching. it sort-of sucks for the lower-rated players, but what can you do... If you want the strong players to contribute, you need to provide some kind of incentive, monetary or otherwise. We have had a discussion about this recently on L19, as I recall. The bottom line being that if you want somebody to do stuff they don't like doing, you need to pay them. Other than money, there is not that much weak(er) player have to offer... worship, maybe?

You can see the same issue popping up all over the place - the issue of incentive and, ultimately, money. Pros play for money... they write for money... they teach for money... even if its not you who pays them. The whole discussion about European Championship - there is also a strong undercurrent related to money. The reasons for strong Asians visiting Europe... same thing, no matter how some wish to smudge it. And so on...

'Tis how the world turns.
We are all becoming americanized, I guess...

The question is - given that these are the cards we have been dealt - what are we going to do?

_________________
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

I think Bill is a very generous man More important, perhaps, is why people stop contributing. There have been several major contributors who have either stopped contributing or have greatly reduced the amount they contribute, Charles Matthews, for example. Burnout and change in interest are two reasons.

I wrote extensively on that matter on SL, indirectly causing this thread, everybody who cares is invited to join the discussion there. (You do not even need to create an account.) Just that: Even the worst discussion on SL inspires edits, improvements etc. to SL articles, but even the best discussions here rarely have any spillover to SL. I am e.g. not aware of any substantial contributions to SL resulting from about 10k (often insightful) posts in the Malkovich forum here. In the long run we will have to accustom to the fact there is more than one platform around, the earlier we foster a spirit of cooperation (as opposed to take-over) the better.

Perhaps librarians or other custodians of information can recognise where things being said on here may contribute to a particular SL article, and link to that article accordingly. In fact, whenever a topic is discussed, or a game review contains comments / advice particular to an article on SL, a link and a plea for contributions might help?

It won't resolve any article organisational issues, but it will keep people here thinking about the quality of information there

As a beginner I went to Sensei's frequently, but at some point, I switched over to learing from books. Also, when I looked up joseki after a game, I would use MoyoGo to see how professionals are playing the joseki. So I stopped going to Sensei's, almost forgot about it.

When I now look at it again, motivated by this very thread, I see how good the content actually is, regarding for example joseki. I would say it is the best free reference available for joseki, by far better than Kogo's. And it is also quite nicely done, the navigation is working perfectly for studying joseki.

On the other hand, here in the L19 forum, I hardly see any reference to SL content. I think we should all value 'our' Wiki more and reference it more often. For example the SL-tag here in the forum - it did not know that it exists

So my key message: We have a very great asset there - let's be proud of it and advertise it more often here on L19 - so that also beginners will visit it regularly and take advantage of it.

_________________
Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)

I used SL a lot as a beginner, and am still fond of it.

I use it to look up joseki, or life and death of common corner patterns.
Sometimes I just try to get my head round some of the the more advanced topics in there (e.g. tedomari, thousand year ko, eternal life, etc)

SL is messy in places, and feels a little out-of-date in terms of design, but I can't really complain, as I'm not spending my time on tidying it up either.