For a game of endless possibilities, it's funny how restricted my play is and how I just can't get myself to play certain moves that I know are valid for my own little reasons.

Examples:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

The shimari. There are several reasons I don't like the shimari:

• Inefficient to play, especially since it's played as early as move 3 or 5. The two stones are just too close in the opening for my liking.
• An unnatural way of making territory. To me, a natural way of making territory is by attacking and gaining profit as you're pressuring your opponent's groups.
• It removes joseki possibilities. I like my hame-I mean, joseki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ . a . . . , X . . |
$$ . . . . . b . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I dislike both playing and having to respond to the low approach, both for pretty much the same reason: I know very little joseki variations off of this approach, especially outside of the two-space pincer and the kosumi response. Hence when my opponent approaches low, I almost always decide only upon 'a' or 'b'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I don't mind influential moves like the 5-4 or even the 5-5, but there is something about the 3-5/5-3 that strikes me as silly. As a result, I don't have much experience with joseki variations like the taisha.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . . |
$$ . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O X X . . . |
$$ . . 1 . O . X . . |
$$ . . . a . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I don't care if you can extend one space more with this, letting my opponent have the opportunity to peep at 'a' irks me so I do the simple connect instead. I don't mind most peeps, but there is something about this peep.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

When I approach my opponent's corner stone, I feel like I am greeting them and giving them a handshake. The ensuing joseki is us talking and interacting. But with this move I feel like I'm trying to greet someone 20 feet away. Weird example, but that's the best way I can express how I feel with this move.

What are some of yours?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ . 5 . . 1 . . 4 . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

i know its basic joseki but i basically refuse to play it now. i usually allow it if my opponent does it but ill never play it

i also refuse to play josekis that involve a lot of jumping into the center because i hate the games that result from them, and it looks ugly

After any variations of this joseki, both black and white can resign as far as I care, as I think both are about 20 points behind ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . 7 5 . . |
$$ . . . . 6 3 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I don't think I've ever played this in a game. For some reason I ALWAYS play the star point when I'm playing black. And usually when I'm playing white as well, no matter what my opponent plays, now that I think about it.

_________________
KGS: schultz [?].

It's not new, but I think that complicated josekis often start with some kind of unreasonableness or indecision on the part of one side or another. In the above, white is deliberately creating a bad shape. "Unh! Take that." Of course, sometimes it's the correct direction of play and all that...

My favorite exmaple is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . a . . . . |
$$ . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . W . X . . |
$$ . . . b . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

To me, this is like white is saying "I want the outside... uh no, wait I want territory... aw, heck, let's just fight because I want everything." My view is that if you aren't willing to play a or b instead of , then you had no business playing to begin with.

Others on my list for other reasons:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . B . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , W . . |
$$ . . . . . a . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

With komi near 8 points, it's supposedly possible for white to just play like or 'a' in some openings but it just seems pretty wussified to me. That stone is just asking to be pincered and there are at least 6 to choose from plus tenuki. One of those moves has to work!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, I have to admit I'm not a sanrensei man. I guess I'm afraid of what it would say about me if I played it. It seems to shout: "I've never read a go book" or "I think I am Takemiya" or "I haven't been paying attention to anything for the past few decades. Haven't you seen my haircut?"

Other than these, there are very few things I avoid for irrational reasons. My opponents are restricting my choices more than I am.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . W . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I haven't played this approach in a long time, probably since about 7 or 8k. I should probably consider it more often.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . X . . X O X . . |
$$ . . . . O X O . . |
$$ . . . . O X . O . |
$$ . . . . O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I can't remember how it occurs, but there's a joseki that ends something like this which I feel looks so terrible for both sides.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

For those interested in trying to reverse-engineer that, I left my post in hide tags:

I never cared much for the 3-3 invasion mostly because it fells like a cheap way to get territory, So I rarely play it.

_________________
Only a child can ask questions that the wise can not answer.

There are a few patterns that I don't really like - but I still play them. I wonder what that says about my go... :-p

Anyway...
1.) I don't like this one for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 6 . 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . O 3 . . |
$$ . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . b . . . . |
$$ . . . . a . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Above, I'm always thinking something along the lines of, "Should I play 'a'? Should I play 'b'? Wha??".

2.) I don't like this one for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 4 . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . 3 . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

However, it was mentioned in another thread that maybe I don't need to play immediately. I have yet to try this, though.

3.) I don't like this for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . 3 . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

4.) I don't like this for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ . . . 4 . O . 5 . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 2 . 7 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I just feel that is awkward.

---

Like I said, though, though I dislike these for a particular side, I still play them for either side, sometimes.

_________________
be immersed

What do you mean by cheap? You feel it gives you an unfair advantage sometimes? Why wouldn't you play it then?



This isn't an established joseki anyway . White almost always plays at 'a' or 'b', and the slide at is very rare after either move. Did you mean for this to be a line higher?

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

This thread is very interesting and also extremely silly at the same time.
Not sure why...

Let it be a lesson for you all to overcome your burden of constrained thinking.
My best wishes.

_________________
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c I'll take the whole board, please
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

While there's no evidence either way, privately I'm more or less convinced that tengen is the correct first move. It's the ultimate fighting move, and modern go seems to reveal itself as more and more about fighting and less and less about territory. Still, I don't play it, because it seems to turn go into a whole different game and I don't think I can adjust.

I have a strong dislike of the Chinese fuseki. I know pros play it all the time, it's good, etc. etc. But I just don't like it. Maybe because it's so popular, I don't want something too common...

Ooops. I think that I meant this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ . . . 4 . O . 5 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 2 . 7 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

That said, I wonder if I've ever made the mistake in a game of playing in my original sequence following the 3-4.

_________________
be immersed

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

The large knight's corner enclosure. The aji in the corner just makes me feel bad, man. Same thing about the 2-space high enclosure, but I guess it could be debated whether it's a "valid" move anyway.

_________________
IN VICTORY, MALICE. IN DEFEAT, REVENGE. DON'T GET MAD, GET BAD

Cheap was probably the wrong term.
Im more in dislike of the influence or the outer wall that is gotten by the other player that is one of the reasons why I don't play in the corner and that im shut in the corner. That wall when bearing down the right direction is frightfully intimidating I will gladely give up the corner at times for the wall because I can use it quite efficiently. But I am not great at dealing with the wall when faced against it. When I have supporting stones around ahead of time to combat the outerwall I may play in the corner. As for when my opponent plays in the corner even though I get the outer influence it seems a little cheap that in most cases my opponent gets to live in the corner unless I am able to start a ko fight that I can win or they make a mistake.

_________________
Only a child can ask questions that the wise can not answer.

To add to this very meaningful discussion, here is my take:

I very seldom, if ever, start my game with any of the moves marked '1' in the below diagram.
I think '1's are for quitters!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 . 1 . 1 1 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 . . 1 . 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 . . 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I very seldom, if ever, answer the move 1 with any of the moves marked 2 in the diagram below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 2 . 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 . 2 2 . 2 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 . . . 2 . 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 . 2 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 . 2 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I'm just weird, so don't try it at home.

_________________
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

The wide approach... apparently. viewtopic.php?p=69449#p69449 =D

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ . . . 4 1 . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I've never liked B4 as either player...I feel like no matter which side I'm on it's a bad result...

I have never used opening plays other than 33, 34, or 44, but that's probably pretty common. Let's see...

I rarely consider any pincer other than the 1 space low, especially when working from a 44 point. After the 33 corner invasion, you either have a weak shape or you give up sente to defend. Bleh.

I've heard in a couple places that kgs players use the high approach to 34 much more often than you would see on other servers. Don't know whether that's true, but have been making a point of using the low approach more often since I heard it.

One interesting one which kind of fits with this thread: I almost never tenuki before a corner situation is 'settled' (whether it's by finishing a joseki, or coming to an nonjoseki even result, or concluding that a nonjoseki result is utterly hopeless).

So, for example, I would very rarely ignore an approach move, or do that high approach * attach * hane * draw back * tenuki thing that you see fairly often (sorry, I don't know how to do diagrams). Pros do that kind of thing all the time, and I wonder if a reluctance to do it is one of the lesser known dangers of studying joseki.