Do you hate playing an all 4-4 game?

Dusk Eagle · #1

For quite a long time now, I have dreaded playing in a quadruple 4-4 game as either color, and have played in such a way to avoid it. wms also said at the start of his Malkovich game versus Magicwand that quadruple star-point games drive him nuts. My opinion on this type of game is changing, but I wonder - does anyone else hate playing from this fuseki? If so, what about it bothers you?

Chew Terr · #2

Nah. I know better how to handle them than I do some of the 3-4 joseki. Plus I love 3-3 invasions (and denying them at the last minute when possible). I guess I just feel more comfortable when half or more of the corners are based on star points. Which, thankfully, I can arrange =)

Jordus · #3

Its kind of funny. When I first started playing that was the only way I played. Then I hated it. And now, I don't really mind the all 4-4 play. However, as black, I almost never play it because I favor other moves. So I voted that I dislike it as black.

fwiffo · #4

I usually play two 4-4s as white, cause I feel that black gets to choose the direction of the opening, and there's not much advantage white can get by trying to counter it before move 6. Playing two 4-4s means that it's not urgent for white to worry about his own position and can immediately deal with black's plan.

On the other hand, I think it's usually boring for black to choose two 4-4s or san-ren-sei. I'd rather black do something less symmetrical and bland since black has the initiative.

xDragon · #5

i actually prefer 4-4 games, im more comfortable with those josekis. i play a double 4-4 probably 80% of games i play.

mdobbins · #6

Jordus wrote:

Its kind of funny. When I first started playing that was the only way I played. Then I hated it. And now, I don't really mind the all 4-4 play. However, as black, I almost never play it because I favor other moves. So I voted that I dislike it as black.

I took a similar route. When I first stated playing, I was either giving or taking a lot of handicap so I got used to the 4-4 openings. Later I started looking for variety, so I almost exclusively opened w/ 3-4 whenever I could. Now I will plav any opening from 3-3 to 5-5

DrStraw · #7

YES, I HATE IT

But then, I never play it because I never play 4-4 at all.

(BTW, Why can't I use font bigger than 200? 200 does express the extent of my aversion.)

Dusk Eagle · #8

I also followed Jordus's route. When I was a DDK, I exclusively played 4-4 because after all, "Modern pros have shown that the 4-4 is the best opening period."

Solomon · #9

3-4 > 5-3 > 5-4 > 4-4 > 5-5 > 6-4 > 10-10 > 10-9 > ... > 10-3 > 9-10 > 9-9 > ... > 9-3 > 8-10 > ... > 3-10 > ... > 3-3

Tyson2011 · **#10**

i will generally use one 4-4 if im playing white, but avoid them completely as black

Nikolas73 · **#11**

For the first two or three years that I played Go I almost always played the 4-4 as White or Black. More recently I've been trying other openings for Black (Orthodox fuseki, double 3-4, sanrensei, etc.). I still think I have had the most success with a double 4-4 and I have no problem playing with an all 4-4 opening. I can only recall one game as White where I didn't start with a double 4-4; it ended in disaster when I instead played a 4-4 and 3-4 and my opponent played a joseki I didn't know. Although, I feel like I'm starting a slow transition into other openings...

dfan · **#12**

I never end up in a quadruple 4-4 because I rarely play 4-4, as either color. I like the fact that other corner moves (3-4, 5-4, 5-3) have a natural followup, and miss that in 4-4.

Phelan · **#13**

I usually play double 4-4 as white, for the same reasons fwiffo said. As black, I play a much more varied opening, and even sometimes try strange things, with usually bad results. They're always educational, though.

Perception · **#14**

I dislike 4-4 openings. 4-4 points feel too open which is why I usually play 3-4 or 3-3 in the opening.

Hagios · **#15**

As black I generally open on komoku in order to attempt for a mini-chinese result. If I know that my opponent hates 4,4 openings, though, I absolutely always open on the 4-4.

I think it's important to be comfortable and confident in every type of opening. If you hate 4-4 openings, play them as much as possible. If you hate tasuki fuseki, play it all the time. Keep doing this until you can play any opening happily, and drive your opponents crazy by playing the kind of game they hate.

runaway · **#16**

DrStraw wrote:

YES, I HATE IT

But then, I never play it because I never play 4-4 at all.

(BTW, Why can't I use font bigger than 200? 200 does express the extent of my aversion.)

I wholeheartedly agree.
Since the only books that I have read over and over again are "In The Beginning" and "Ishida's Joseki Dictionaries" (mostly #2). The reason being those are the only books that are available at the library.
I get frustrated by the other players playing too normally. 4-4 has too many ways to make it normal. On the other hand, if it were a 3-4, I'm sure to play out some kind of fun (avalanche) variation.

Gresil · **#17**

Yes. I've vented about it before.

Bill Spight · **#18**

It might be fun to play some games with the diagonal 4-4 setup. After all, that starting setup was popular for centuries.

MountainGo · **#19**

I tend to enjoy games more when I feel like I'm learning something from it. And what better way to learn widely applicable principles than to play the most bland/neutral/standard/boring game possible? So I like all 4-4s from time to time.

CarlJung · **#20**

95% of my games at wbaduk are quadruple 4-4. My opponents know perhaps 3 joseki from that so it gets very predictable. I on the other hand, know a whooping 4 so I'm at a distinctive advantage.

Do you hate playing an all 4-4 game?

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