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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #21 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:13 am 
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1st - Totally 14k.
2nd - 1d Have a vague idea about what happened there, but both player know about keeping sente a lot more than me.
3rd - 7k. Black is good at making empty triangles. I've seen that immediate wedging into low chinese so many times around that level cause i like to play it. So rather obvious
4th - 5 dan. Black certainly knew what he was doing, so did white.
5th - Pro. You just can feel it.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #22 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:53 am 
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1: 14k
2: 1d
3: 7k
4: 5d
5: pro


Hrm, now to check what everyone else thought...

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #23 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:55 am 
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1. 14Kyu

Move 47 is an early first line move. Even a 7 kyu should see that move 58 don't work. Move 62-63 are tiny. And later on you see some contact move "snake pushing". All mistakes that are very indicative of a double kyu player.

2. 1 dan

You see some reading mistakes and questionable plays, but both players seems to have a sense of pace, aiming at not playing small moves, trying to keep sente and not getting bogged down in earlier mistakes.

3. 7 kyu.

Neither player seems to have any respect for influence, and there are just cut groups everywhere. But the real reason I think this is 7 kyu is because of moves such as 64,88 and 181 that I just wouldn't expect from stronger players.

4. 5d.

This game either has some deep thoughts behind the moves, some really good instincts or both. But the way white handled the bottom makes me question the strength of the players.

5. Professional

Deep and clean, which I why I choose this one for professional

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #24 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:15 am 
Oza

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1. 14k
2. 5d
3. 7k
4. 1d
5. Pro

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #25 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:30 am 
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OK, my guesses, without looking at any other replies:

game 1: 7k
game 2: 1d
game 3: 14k
game 4: pro
game 5: 5d


edit:

Now I see that game 5 is a popular choice for pro. I eliminated that based on move 101. Connecting this worthless lump of stones felt too small. True there is a followup ko, but still.

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Last edited by zinger on Thu May 06, 2010 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #26 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:32 am 
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wow..i dont know why #2 can not be professional. i guess they are distracted with unfamiliar shapes that they can not understand.

#1 being 14k is obvious.
#2 maintain delicate balance of moyo and points. definitly professional.
#3 plays ok but doesnt have dan shape.
#4 1dan level reading but can never be 5D
#5 is not professional. they leave themselves with toomany weaknesses to be a professional.

1. 14k
2. prof
3. 7k
4. 1d
5. 5d

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #27 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:53 am 
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Magicwand:

I didn't really feel the sharpness in their reading. I think it's conceivable that they're 5d, but a move like 195 was definitely a signal to me that these two can't be pro.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #28 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:01 am 
Tengen
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Violence wrote:
Magicwand:

I didn't really feel the sharpness in their reading. I think it's conceivable that they're 5d, but a move like 195 was definitely a signal to me that these two can't be pro.


i took little more time ...and you are correct.
#5 is better than #2.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #29 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:55 am 
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My guesses:

#1: 14k
#2: 1d KGS -- the opening I would have believed it if you said 5d, but the later fighting was wacky. Maybe it's 5d blitz
#3: 7k
#4: pro
#5: 5d blitz?

EDIT: after looking at the end of #5, that one is probably pro. The gap is about 2.5 points or so for a naive endgame; I would guess that most 5d players wouldn't think of resigning there.


Last edited by ethanb on Thu May 06, 2010 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #30 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:59 am 
Gosei
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If #1 isn't the 14k I'll eat my hat. #3 looks distinctly kyu level, and weaker than me, so that would be the 7k. The others I'm less sure about, but I think #4 is the pro game, #5 is the 5d and #2 is the 1d.

So that's:
1: 14k
2: 1d
3: 7k
4: pro
5: 5d

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #31 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:04 am 
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When do we find out?!?!

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #32 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:40 am 
Gosei
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Violence wrote:
Solch, can you tell us about the time controls on these games? Are they variable? Comparable? Different? Same?

Well I don't know the exact time settings for the pro game, but it's not a blitz televised game. The rest are something like 30 minutes main time, 30 seconds byoyomi x 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #33 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:46 am 
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I sucked at this last time, let's see if I got any better...

1) 14k
2) 1d
3) 7k
4) pro or high dan
5) pro or high dan

I can't tell which is higher level, 4 or 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #34 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:56 am 
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topazg wrote:
Kind of like uber-magicwands on speed.


hahahaha

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #35 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:07 am 
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game 1: 7k
game 2: 5d
game 3: 14k
game 4: pro
game 5: 1d

If I remember correctly, I did quite well the first time but I'm still unsure of my answers. I stopped looking during the middlegame in each game.

Edit: After checking everyone's answers it seems game 5 is 5d or pro. I went over it twice and the play certainly looks strong but they are moves I really cannot understand
-43: Isn't black sente anytime? I don't see what it achieves.
-91: It doesn't make sense to me.
-95: Both black and white are completly settled, so it is better than a move at the bottom?
-100: I don't understand the timing at all.
- The endgame doesn't look so impressive, for example 219 could only be to gain time, 264 was worth 1 point in gote, t15 in the same area was worth more.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #36 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:54 am 
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14k, then 5d, then 7k, then pro, then 1d

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #37 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:45 am 
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1. 14k
2. pro
3. 1 dan
4. 5 dan
5. 7 kyu


Deciding between #2 and #4 was the difficult bit here. #2 had more tenuki in the first 100 moves, so I guess that's the pro game. Granted, I didn't look at any of the games much beyond 100 moves.


Edit: I looked at everyone's replies. What the hell? In game 5 moves 11 and 16 look like half-nonsense, black has to make bad shape at move 25, and I feel I can follow the game easily... I can't easily accept that this is the pro game.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #38 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Sol plz plz give us the answer, cant wait any longer ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #39 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:26 pm 
Gosei
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Gresil wrote:
1. 14k
2. pro
3. 1 dan
4. 5 dan
5. 7 kyu


Deciding between #2 and #4 was the difficult bit here. #2 had more tenuki in the first 100 moves, so I guess that's the pro game. Granted, I didn't look at any of the games much beyond 100 moves.


Edit: I looked at everyone's replies. What the hell? In game 5 moves 11 and 16 look like half-nonsense, black has to make bad shape at move 25, and I feel I can follow the game easily... I can't easily accept that this is the pro game.


16 is the 3rd most popular choice from pros according to my database; 11 is the most popular choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess their rank: Strength analysis experiment.
Post #40 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:23 pm 
Dies in gote

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game 1 - 14k
game 2 - 1d
game 3 - talented 7k
game 4 - 5d
game 5 - pro

the big margin of victory on game 5 almost throws me off and makes me unsure of the choice of 4 & 5, but my gut feeling of the play tells me 5 is a higher quality game than 4.

can't wait to see if i've embarrassed myself

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