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 Post subject: How to work through (easy) tsumego again?
Post #1 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:11 am 
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Hi,
I just finished my first thorough read through Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 1 yesterday. It took quite a while, as I'm still a beginner and tried to come to a clear solution by going through all possible variations of the problems with the goal, that I didn't need to look at the answer anymore.

Now I went through the book a second time and of course it goes much faster. For most, but not all, problems, I can see the solution right away now and if I can't, figuring out the right solution also takes less time than before.
My question is this: When I do these problems a second (third, fourth) time, how detailed should my solutions for the problems be? Is it okay if I go to the next problem when I see the answer right away or should I still go through all of the possible moves that lead to the correct answer and eliminate all the wrong options?

I'll start Graded Go Problems Vol.2 immediately (and it'll probably take a while), but I think re-doing older, easier problems quickly as well, could still be beneficial. But I'm not sure how to go about it.

My second pass through Volume 1 took about 32 minutes and I still had a bunch of problems where I had to take a minute or two to figure out the solution. But for the majority of the problems it felt like I "skipped" them and I didn't have to think about the solution.

I'm probably worrying about absolutely nothing and doing everything correctly, but I just wanted to make sure I'm not starting a bad habit this early in my learning.

Looking forward to your replies :)

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 Post subject: Re: How to work through (easy) tsumego again?
Post #2 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:07 am 
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Some thoughts, no definite answers. :)

If you can correctly confidently solve upon sight, and you are actually correct, that seems fine to leave it at that for those problems and spend more time on harder problems. That's what strong players do too - for simple problems, they don't need to consciously read out that their move has no refutation so that it works or consciously consider multiple possible opponent responses, because their instinct is accurate enough that if there were a refutation, it would have jumped out at them, so the fact that it didn't means that the move must work.

Of course, if you're not actually 100% accurate, or you specifically want to work on your conscious reading rather your instinct, than you can still read out the moves and prove that it works. It depends on what you want to practice too.

And it's quite possible that in addition to partly learning the correct shapes and instincts in a way that generalizes, you are also partly memorizing the specific problems in the book in a way that won't generalize. That's okay too, that's inevitably the case to some degree if you repeat the same tsumego a lot. If you want to experiment a bit, try giving it some time to forget the book a little and then do the same problems again, except hold the book upside down so the problems look a little different. Sometimes that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: How to work through (easy) tsumego again?
Post #3 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:52 am 
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That's why I like GoChild, it rotates the board around and switches colors so I have to pay attention even when I "know" the problem.
But with a book I'm more likely to actually work through a problem and not mindlessly click my way to the solution ;)

Flipping the book upside down and taking a break before attempting to work through it again are some good tips, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: How to work through (easy) tsumego again?
Post #4 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:02 pm 
Judan

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MysteryFTG wrote:
Hi,
I just finished my first thorough read through Graded Go Problems for Beginners Volume 1 yesterday. It took quite a while, as I'm still a beginner and tried to come to a clear solution by going through all possible variations of the problems with the goal, that I didn't need to look at the answer anymore.

Now I went through the book a second time and of course it goes much faster. For most, but not all, problems, I can see the solution right away now and if I can't, figuring out the right solution also takes less time than before.
My question is this: When I do these problems a second (third, fourth) time, how detailed should my solutions for the problems be? Is it okay if I go to the next problem when I see the answer right away or should I still go through all of the possible moves that lead to the correct answer and eliminate all the wrong options?

I'll start Graded Go Problems Vol.2 immediately (and it'll probably take a while), but I think re-doing older, easier problems quickly as well, could still be beneficial. But I'm not sure how to go about it.

My second pass through Volume 1 took about 32 minutes and I still had a bunch of problems where I had to take a minute or two to figure out the solution. But for the majority of the problems it felt like I "skipped" them and I didn't have to think about the solution.

I'm probably worrying about absolutely nothing and doing everything correctly, but I just wanted to make sure I'm not starting a bad habit this early in my learning.

Looking forward to your replies :)


I address your main question on Sensei's Library: https://senseis.xmp.net/?GoProblemsTheFudgeFactor

In theory, you have not solved a problem unless you know correct play for each of the opponent's replies. OC, for reasons of space, time, and tediousness, almost nobody shows diagrams for every reply. So there is some value in making sure that you know how to handle every reply. OTOH, going over every reply is usually a waste of time. Finding the right balance is a question of judgement. If you have the nagging sense that, even though you got the problem right, you are not sure that you can handle every reply, then take some time to go over possible replies. It is always good to take the opponent's point of view. Many mistakes in real games happen through not doing so.

There are a couple of factors that are well established by psychologists. One is the value of overlearning. It is not, in general, good enough to do a problem several times until you get it right. You have to understand a problem well enough to get it right a number of times, as well. A good rule of thumb is to get right at least half as often as you got it wrong. So, for instance, if there is a problem that you got right the first time, don't bother to do it again. If you got it right on the second try, do it again. If you got it right on the sixth try, get it right a couple of more times.

Other people may disagree, but I don't think that training for speed is worth much. As you noticed, speed comes naturally. :)

Another factor is the level of difficulty of problems that you do. Obviously, if you missed a problem, it is difficult for you, and you need to review and overlearn it. A good rule of thumb is to do problems that you have a 50-50 chance of solving. OC, the time spent on the problem makes a difference. I think that, at your level, taking 1-2 minutes on a problem is reasonable. Given that, it is plain that Volume 1 is too easy for you now. You are right to move on, and you are also right to review. :)

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: How to work through (easy) tsumego again?
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Thank you for your informative reply. I also read through your article on Sensei's and the whole concept reminds me a bit of SRS, which I'm using to learn vocabulary. Maybe if I can find an easy way to do it, I'll add the finished Go Problem books to a new Anki (SRS software I use to study Japanese) deck or something similar.

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 Post subject: Re: How to work through (easy) tsumego again?
Post #6 Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Thank you for your reference to SR
MysteryFTG wrote:
the whole concept reminds me a bit of SRS, which I'm using to learn vocabulary.

Just my 2 cents about TsuMeGo solving/studying/learning:
I use to keep track of all not Right First Time
- 1st to come back to, in a later time and try solving again
- 2nd to play that on a board and take a picture that I put on my wallpaper changer (so that I can see them back and again and memorize)

Galation

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