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 Post subject: What am I overlooking today?
Post #1 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:34 pm 
Lives with ko

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Hi,

another tsumego (this one is from Tsumego pro, "easy problems"):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O O . . . .
$$ | O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Black to play.

The accepted solution:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$BmNaN
$$ +------------------
$$ | . X O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X O O . . . .
$$ | O O X . . . . . .
$$ | X . X O O . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Why is this the answer?
In my idea of playing this out, black captures the three stones but ends up dead.
So I must be missing best play.





I'm sorry - I tried all options from the "How to post SGF"-thread, but apparently it does not work!
(I used the sgf-tags and sgf-small)

Maybe you can guess how I end up with this.
Probably black could run, and hope to make a second eye elsewhere.
But that is not a real solution, is it?


Attachments:
130819.sgf [176 Bytes]
Downloaded 164 times

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I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #2 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:13 pm 
Honinbo

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My guess is that this is an SDK problem. Not exactly easy in my book. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +------------------
$$ | . X O . . . . . .
$$ | 4 X X O O . . . .
$$ | O 2 3 . . . . . .
$$ | 5 . 1 O O . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


:b1: is necessary to have enough room to live. :b5: is necessary, since if White plays there White can kill. The result is seki. That is what you were missing. :) Don't capture the White stones. (BTW, in my first year of play I made exactly that mistake in an actual game. :oops: )

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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:23 pm 
Judan

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Sometimes passing is better than playing a move: let white go first in answer position, can he kill?

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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #4 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 am 
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The best answer is Seki in this Tsumego.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #5 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:05 am 
Gosei

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I agree that this problem seems to be above your current level, though you should learn the concept of seki, and be able to apply it to very simple problems (e.g., making a five-space line of which White occupies the middle three).

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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #6 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:38 am 
Honinbo

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The format of your SGF file doesn't seem right - that's why it doesn't show up properly here.

Maybe you can try creating your SGF file again.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #7 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:59 pm 
Lives with ko

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@Bill:
I thought I have to capture the white stones because
- I thought that is what tsumego is about (apparently not!)
- I thought that if I don't, white will fill up all outer liberties and assumed that then white would be able to kill/capture black (so I overlooked the seki that arises even after white has filled outer liberties)

I am familiar with the concept of seki, and yes, it is often introduced the way Mike says, so, no complicated seki situations.

@Kirby:
Would you elaborate? I've used the Sabaki edit mode for creating the file.
When save, it says "save as format SGF", but does not append a .sgf automatically.
So I added .sgf manually.

I've asked about what editor to use (for myself, but also so the embedded Eidogo can handle it) in another thread.
There, someone suggested Sabaki.

What should I be doing or what editor works for this?
Thanks!

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Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

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Post #8 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:25 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Jika,
Quote:
I thought I have to capture the white stones because
- I thought that is what tsumego is about (apparently not!)
Go problems, and Go itself for that matter, is about finding the 'best' sequence(s) for both sides. That's it. :) If you have a (long) list of I must do this and I must do that, you could be limiting yourself.

As for editors, everyone has their own favorites. For the most part, I edit L19 diagrams manually (by text), on a tiny iphone5 screen, like right now. :blackeye: You just have to experiment and find out your preferences.


This post by EdLee was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: What am I overlooking today?
Post #9 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:21 pm 
Lives in gote
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If you don't have any sgf editor at hand, you can:

1. Go to eidogo.com
2. Click on "Blank Board"
3. Select Tool>Black Stone and put the black stones of the original position
4. Select Tool>White Stone and put the white stones of the original position
5. Select Tool>Play and play your moves and variations
6. Save to Server
7. Download SGF.

Here is the result.



Attachments:
zLYjKorv.sgf [178 Bytes]
Downloaded 15 times
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