How to study shape?

[Charles Matthews]

at most a minor inconvenience to you

I've said many times that I cannot access CDs, and I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm being taken seriously.

That's because you are using overstatement. An external CD-ROM drive costs £15. This doesn't prove CD-ROMs are obsolete; it tends to prove that hardware sold without a CD-ROM drive recognises the drives are a commodity item.

[billywoods]

That's because you are using overstatement. An external CD-ROM drive costs £15.

I really don't know what more to say. Even if it wasn't completely vulgar of you to speculate about my finances, I've already told you I'm a student on a very tight budget. I think this discussion ends here.

[Charles Matthews]

That's because you are using overstatement. An external CD-ROM drive costs £15.

I really don't know what more to say. Even if it wasn't completely vulgar of you to speculate about my finances, I've already told you I'm a student on a very tight budget. I think this discussion ends here.

This is life in 19x19, remember. Not "life in general", which is not set up for the convenience of any of us.

If money is too tighten to mention, you are much better off not mentioning it, really. I'm not deaf, nor ignorant of students.

Just don't call "useless lumps of plastic" things that are quite the opposite. Cut your losses (a very good go principle) and don't lash out at volunteers. It leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

[Bantari]

I've said many times that I cannot access CDs, and I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm being taken seriously. After spending £20 on a CD full of sgf files, it may well seem like only a minor inconvenience to you to then spend another £15 on a trip to and from my nearest public library and a cheap flash drive to transport the files back home, but I hope you understand that money is tight and £35 is two weeks' food for me!

Well, what are you saying then?
To me, it seems like: "I CANNOT AFFORD your product (CD + CD reader) and its all YOUR FAULT!"

It may be that at this point of your life you cannot afford GoGoD. Does not mean the world should adjust - it only means you have to wait until you are in a better shape financially, and THEN buy it.

I hear your argument that CD/DVD is being phased out - but we are not there yet, and 99.99% of the world still has access to some kind of a reader. So, for now, whatever format GoGoD is released, its all good. Its still a TREMENDOUS value you get for your money - even when you pay for the CD + CDreader together - its still darned cheap!

And as for the argument that "you only need a part of GoGoD" - its like going to a library and demanding they sell you only the particular chapter of a book because you don't need the rest. How spoiled have we become as a community?

PS>
Geesh....If I made such a fuss about everything I cannot afford at the moment, I would not haver time for nothing else but complaining...

PS>
Hey Mark - THAT's how you rant!!

[Dusk Eagle]

And as for the argument that "you only need a part of GoGoD" - its like going to a library and demanding they sell you only the particular chapter of a book because you don't need the rest. How spoiled have we become as a community?

To be fair, it's not really like that, as digital products are easily separable whereas a physical book is not. Also, GoGoD really is multiple products bound together in a single package (which is perfectly fine). I know I mainly just use the database part of GoGoD.

As for the larger fight that's going on, I have my opinions on it, but I think it's best to just not get involved.

[jts]

And as for the argument that "you only need a part of GoGoD" - its like going to a library and demanding they sell you only the particular chapter of a book because you don't need the rest. How spoiled have we become as a community?

To be fair, it's not really like that, as digital products are easily separable whereas a physical book is not. Also, GoGoD really is multiple products bound together in a single package (which is perfectly fine). I know I mainly just use the database part of GoGoD.

As for the larger fight that's going on, I have my opinions on it, but I think it's best to just not get involved.

... I'm confused that you chose this part of Bantari's rant to dispute. It would be perfectly reasonable for libraries to make their books available to users as chapter-by-chapter pdfs. The files would load more quickly than a whole book, for heavily-read titles under copyright more people could be reading the book at once, and for many edited volumes, the user would only have wanted to read one essay/entry etc. anyway.

[billywoods]

Well, what are you saying then?

Mostly, I was baited by a stupid derailment. People told me repeatedly that I could access CDs because they had found ingenious solutions to my stupidity; Charles was consistently rude and dismissive; even Bartleby and xed_over, who made largely helpful posts, made one or two comments that made it clear they thought I was an idiot. Naively, I got annoyed and allowed myself to be goaded into talking about things I didn't really want to talk about to defend myself. I still don't want to talk about those things (or about the resulting argument about those things, or about this post, or...).

As for what I actually wanted to talk about: I'm pretty sure I made it quite clear in post 54 (and many since: 75 and the latter half of 80, for example). T Mark answered me satisfactorily immediately. But if you'd like to discuss further anything I wanted to talk about, please feel free.

[xed_over]

even Bartleby and xed_over, who made largely helpful posts, made one or two comments that made it clear they thought I was an idiot.

An idiot? No, not in the least.
Unreasonably argumentative? Probably.

Besides, I thought you were done with this discussion.

[Bantari]

Well, what are you saying then?

Mostly, I was baited by a stupid derailment. People told me repeatedly that I could access CDs because they had found ingenious solutions to my stupidity; Charles was consistently rude and dismissive; even Bartleby and xed_over, who made largely helpful posts, made one or two comments that made it clear they thought I was an idiot.

Ok, I think you are too harsh on yourself. I did not understand what they said as meaning you were an idiot, or stupid, or whatever. More likely - spoiled and slightly self-centered.

Here is what I would have done in your place:
1. Contact the GoGoD creator/distributor asking about other options (other then CD)
2. Lacking thereof, I would suggest help (maybe for a discount) - still in private mails, mind you
3. If that too failed, I would post here with a question if anybody has an idea, maybe even a solution - if, as you suggest and believe (which is not true) that CDs are obsolete, chances are many people had the same problem as you do, and chances are - the community has solved it somehow
4. If that still fails, THEN you might get upset, but not really at the world (i.e. the GoGoD creators, the community, etc.), but rather at the current circumstances YOU find yourself in. And then you can decide to (a) do without the goodies, (b) wait until your circumstances improve, (c) do something about your circumstances (help out in the local burger joint for a couple of hours - this might get you the funds you lack,) or (d) wait until GoGoD changes its ways and joins the 21st century (maybe offer some help here too?)

Instead, what you did looked like that:
THEY suck, and THEY make life uncomfortable for ME, and THEY use old technology, and why don't THEY accomodate ME, and THEY don't understands ME, and even THEIR website is bad, and yadda yadda yadda...

Do you seriously wonder why that annoys people? Regardless of the standing TM and JF have within the community.

[billywoods]

Besides, I thought you were done with this discussion.

So did I. I want to be done with this discussion, and I'm sure plenty of other people want this discussion to end too. But for every one person that wants me to shut up, there's another that replies to me. I can't really win. I've said twice that I want to stop talking about irrelevant things, but here I go again:

Here is what I would have done in your place:

You're misunderstanding my first post. I didn't complain about GoGoD. I complained about Charles's insistence that asking for GoGoD in non-CD formats was "technically snobbish". I told him that there were perfectly good reasons why one might want or need it in other formats, and so it would be snobbish to refuse to give it to people in other formats. T Mark then turned up and said that when people asked for other formats, they did indeed get them - that is, he agreed with me, even if he didn't agree with the way I said it. I'd like to stop talking about this, now, please. (For the third time.)

I did offer the advice that their website could use some improvement. There were a few bits of information that I'd have liked to see on the website that I couldn't find, which made me hesitate to give them money (and eventually I didn't). This is a shame both for me and for the sellers. It's friendly advice from one person wanting to spread go to another (well, two others), not criticism.

(maybe offer some help here too?)

If anyone asks me for help with anything I can do, they tend to get it. Why do you think I spend my free time giving advice online? It's certainly not because I can't think of more enjoyable things to do - it's because, like everyone else here, I want to help spread go.

[jts]

Hey guys... I suck at Go. How should I study shape?

[Dusk Eagle]

You should spend your time reading pointless arguments on forums... the time you put into Go is all the same anyway.

[Bill Spight]

How keshi is my aji!

[jts]

You should spend your time reading pointless arguments on forums... the time you put into Go is all the same anyway.

Ah, but sometimes the arguments that seem not to make any points turn out to be very thick.

[tchan001]

If I had neither hardware, I'd definitely prefer purchasing a CD reader to access something like GoGOD compared with purchasing an IPad/iPhone to access smartgo books.