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 Post subject: Very new and very bad. Help much appreciated.
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:07 pm 
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My friend and I enjoy many types of strategy games, but play very few of the same games. We figured that picking up a game that was completely new to both of us would be a good experience, and allow us to learn and improve together. After doing some research, Go piqued both of our interest, and we've started trying to learn the basics.

We played a few games on 5x5 and 9x9 just to get used to the rules, but since we can only play on weekends, I've been trying to learn a little more in between. I watched a few lectures/reviews of 19x19 games to learn some high-level concepts and started playing 9x9 games against computers with very little success. I found that when I tried playing towards the center, I ended up boxed into the middle with no way to make points. After a few games like this, I decided to try to be more aggressive and split the opposing group up as often as possible. That led to the game below, which I think was a little more successful.

I'm hoping for some advice on resources for very new players, and advice on where I'm going wrong in these simple games that's causing me to lose so catastrophically. There's a lot to learn, and I'm excited to start seeing what I can do.



:b3: I'm not sure if this is too aggressive. I know if I try to play something like C5, I'm risking getting trapped in the middle. I don't know if D3, letting White have the corner but setting myself up to get the left side would be more effective. I feel like, given the small size of the board, I have to be aggressive to overcome the komi, but that may not be true.

:b5: is something like D2 better? that gives up the bottom right corner for white, but gives me better position on the left side. I suppose I need to be a little afraid of E7 or D7 starting to trap me in the corner, but I'm really not certain. Instead, I decided to keep fighting to see how that worked out.

:b13: I liked that this applies pressure to two white groups at a time while stopping them from linking up. I think the E2 stone is dead enough without another move, and I think this sets me up to get the bottom right corner and still fight for the left side. Still, I'm wondering if something big like C6 or E7 is better, or if the move preventing white from connecting is too urgent to ignore.


:b19: I know that C4 is important, since it lets white link up, but I don't think I can pick that fight right now. I still want to keep the bottom left group separated from the top right. This move seems too ambitious. E6 seems too passive, since I need to win something on the left side to overcome komi. Perhaps E7, D7 to start trying to get more space? Giving white D6 just seems like very bad news.

:b21: I panicked. F6 is too passive, and lets white link up to the G7 Stone. I have to find something to prevent that, or minimize the impact, and I just didn't see anything, so I forced white to link in the bottom left instead. This seems bad since it solidifies white in the bottom left while giving me a weak-ish group in the top left. I know I have to play G4 eventually, but now seems like a horrific time. F6 seems bad since it lets white take and leaves me fighting a ko to have any points anywhere. Maybe G6 is okay? But which takes and I have to fix at G4, which leaves White to do something like F6.

:b23: Now that I have a stone on the left side, I think I can play this and have a chance of living on the left side and/or winning the ko to keep white seperated-ish. Maybe D5 or D7 is better? It seems really bad to let white take and force me to fix, and then get G6 or E7 for free.

:b31: This seems like the biggest play left on the board. I don't think any play on the right side is worth as much as getting more solid on the left. Maybe B5 or D8 are better?

:b33: This seems like it gives me the the most space to make eyes/points. I don't think C8 is playable, since it gets cut immediately and I get forced to make an empty shape. Maybe I'm supposed to take the ko and force white to connect, but that still leaves the same problem. I think C7 might be what I was looking for, but I thought that would leave B5 for white, which is also horrendous for me.

:b35: this is where white times out. This confuses me, because I thought it was a game-ending blunder. I'm obligated to play at C7, which lets white capture at B5, at which point I feel like I don't have enough space to live in the corner, and have given up too many points on the left and top sides to overcome komi.

So what am I doing right? More importantly, what am I doing wrong? I feel like there was a critical turn where I gave up too much, and that D5 is the place I needed to find a turn to play earlier on to win the kind of game I played, but I don't know when I would have found time to do so.

Any and all advice and suggested reading/watching material would be very much appreciated! I'm looking forward to learning a lot and (hopefully) losing a little less embarrassingly in the future.

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Post #2 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:26 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi cag,

:b21: Connect at F5.

:b23: Connect at F5.


This post by EdLee was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Very new and very bad. Help much appreciated.
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:36 pm 
Honinbo

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cag5383 wrote:
My friend and I enjoy many types of strategy games, but play very few of the same games. We figured that picking up a game that was completely new to both of us would be a good experience, and allow us to learn and improve together. After doing some research, Go piqued both of our interest, and we've started trying to learn the basics.

We played a few games on 5x5 and 9x9 just to get used to the rules, but since we can only play on weekends, I've been trying to learn a little more in between. I watched a few lectures/reviews of 19x19 games to learn some high-level concepts and started playing 9x9 games against computers with very little success. I found that when I tried playing towards the center, I ended up boxed into the middle with no way to make points. After a few games like this, I decided to try to be more aggressive and split the opposing group up as often as possible. That led to the game below, which I think was a little more successful.

I'm hoping for some advice on resources for very new players, and advice on where I'm going wrong in these simple games that's causing me to lose so catastrophically. There's a lot to learn, and I'm excited to start seeing what I can do.



:b3: I'm not sure if this is too aggressive. I know if I try to play something like C5, I'm risking getting trapped in the middle. I don't know if D3, letting White have the corner but setting myself up to get the left side would be more effective. I feel like, given the small size of the board, I have to be aggressive to overcome the komi, but that may not be true.


:b3: is fine. :)

Quote:
:b5: is something like D2 better? that gives up the bottom right corner for white, but gives me better position on the left side. I suppose I need to be a little afraid of E7 or D7 starting to trap me in the corner, but I'm really not certain. Instead, I decided to keep fighting to see how that worked out.


D-03 is worth considering. :)

Quote:
:b13: I liked that this applies pressure to two white groups at a time while stopping them from linking up. I think the E2 stone is dead enough without another move, and I think this sets me up to get the bottom right corner and still fight for the left side. Still, I'm wondering if something big like C6 or E7 is better, or if the move preventing white from connecting is too urgent to ignore.


Divide and conquer is a good idea. :) Still, in this case :b13: allows White to make a good sacrifice.

Quote:
:b19: I know that C4 is important, since it lets white link up, but I don't think I can pick that fight right now. I still want to keep the bottom left group separated from the top right. This move seems too ambitious. E6 seems too passive, since I need to win something on the left side to overcome komi. Perhaps E7, D7 to start trying to get more space? Giving white D6 just seems like very bad news.


You are feeling the effects of White's sacrifice. True, White may be ahead with correct play, but he has yet to make life in the top right corner. Remember, White is weak. :)

Some more comments in this file. :)



Edit: Ed is right about connecting at F-05. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Very new and very bad. Help much appreciated.
Post #4 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:52 am 
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cag5383 wrote:
I'm hoping for some advice on resources for very new players, and advice on where I'm going wrong in these simple games that's causing me to lose so catastrophically.


You need some more experience, anyway.

cag5383 wrote:
There's a lot to learn, and I'm excited to start seeing what I can do.


Yes, plenty to learn, and hard to learn it all at once.



cag5383 wrote:
:b31: This seems like the biggest play left on the board. I don't think any play on the right side is worth as much as getting more solid on the left. Maybe B5 or D8 are better?


Picking this out. From the coach's point of view, this is a classic position.

(a) A disaster has happened.
(b) You have sente (the initiative).
(c) There is an unclear situation. The top left black group doesn't have a clear route to two eyes.
(d) There is a ko in the middle of the board. But capturing right now doesn't do so much.

If Black at D7 worked, it would be the best play, because it takes territory and makes the ko capture stronger. But it doesn't work. Your coach says: "playing too close".

You need to consider playing at C7 and C6 instead. I think C7 offers some chance, because White might play D7, which is not so good as B5.

In other words, work first to repair your shape and keep options open. Don't play "strong" moves until you can see their effect.

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