It is currently Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:22 pm

 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

 Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ]
 Print view Previous topic | Next topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #1 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:54 am
 Dies in gote

Posts: 24
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 4
Rank: OGS 18 kyu
OGS: SpencerKraisler
Online playing schedule: OGS 19-21 PST
I was watching a Nick Sibicky lecture (I forgot which), and he mentioned odd-numbered extensions are more advantageous than even-numbered ones. I'm all for implementing this in my gameplay, but I'd also prefer to know the reason for this.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #2 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:02 am
 Gosei

Posts: 2013
Location: Germany
Liked others: 7262
Was liked: 813
Rank: OGS + EGF DDK
OGS: trohde
Never heard of “odd-numbered extensions” (not that that would mean anything ), but maybe you mean this?

From http://senseis.xmp.net/?ExtensionFromAWall
Sensei’s Library wrote:
For extensions from a wall, or extensions in general, the following rule of thumb applies:

From a wall, the best extension is the number of spaces of the height of the wall, plus one.

It is also embodied in the following proverb:

From one, two. From two, three.

_________________
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” — Mark Twain ★ Come and play on OGS

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #3 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:04 am
 Lives in sente

Posts: 705
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 90
Rank: German 1 Kyu
The reasoning is the potential for creating eyes ...

`[go]\$\$\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . \$\$ | . . . . . . . . . \$\$ | . . . X . X . . . \$\$ | . . Z , X . X . . \$\$ | . . . X . X . . . \$\$ | . . . . . . . . . \$\$ | . . . . . . . . . \$\$ --------------------[/go]`

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: http://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyoron #120 (still unresolved by professionals, maybe solved by three amateurs)

Top

 Post subject: #4 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:35 am
 Judan

Posts: 7596
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 278
Was liked: 1701
GD Posts: 312
Sounds suspicious.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #5 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:43 am
 Judan

Posts: 6478
Liked others: 1518
Was liked: 2414
And then there is Lockett's Law: http://senseis.xmp.net/?LockettsLaw

_________________
Don't cry for me, Sergeant Tina.

 This post by Bill Spight was liked by 4 people: Bonobo, dfan, EdLee, Joaz Banbeck
Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #6 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:45 pm
 Lives with ko

Posts: 251
Liked others: 95
Was liked: 114
Rank: AGA 6k
Side extensions from single corner stones are covered somewhat in this set of workshop notes by Yilun Yang. In general, there is no hard-and-fast rule, as it depends on the surrounding stones, whether you seek to expand or reduce, and other tactical and strategic considerations.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #7 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:04 pm
 Judan

Posts: 7575
Liked others: 1377
Was liked: 1161
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
The rule doesn't make sense. For example, there are several cases where a 2-space extension is great. Maybe 4-space extensions are less common, but they can happen, too.

Anyway, there is an "ideal" extension for any given situation, but this is hardly quantifiable into a rule like this.

I would say that in actual play, 2, 3, and 5 space extensions seem more common to me than 4 space extensions, but this isn't even true for mini-Chinese opening formation, where there's a 4-space extension made quite early by black.

_________________
What have I learned from this game that I'll be able to use in my own game if the opportunity presents itself?

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #8 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:08 am
 Lives with ko

Posts: 144
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 36
Rank: KGS 2k
KGS: Schachus12
Kirby wrote:
I would say that in actual play, 2, 3, and 5 space extensions seem more common to me than 4 space extensions

I discovered a new law: "You should always extend a prime number of spaces". I'm sure 7 space extensions are great too, not to mention 11-space extensions

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #9 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:14 am
 Oza

Posts: 2182
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Liked others: 237
Was liked: 659
Rank: AGA 5d
GD Posts: 4312
Online playing schedule: Every tenth February 29th from 20:00-20:01 (if time permits)
Schachus wrote:
Kirby wrote:
I would say that in actual play, 2, 3, and 5 space extensions seem more common to me than 4 space extensions

I discovered a new law: "You should always extend a prime number of spaces". I'm sure 7 space extensions are great too, not to mention 11-space extensions

11-space extensions are usually referred to as nirensei.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

 This post by DrStraw was liked by 3 people: Bill Spight, Schachus, sparky314
Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #10 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:20 am
 Tengen

Posts: 4042
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 411
Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
I started to say the same thing as Kirby about 4 space extensions. I feel like there's something awkward to them.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #11 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:16 pm
 Lives with ko

Posts: 251
Liked others: 95
Was liked: 114
Rank: AGA 6k
Pecentage of games including a 4-point extension by Dosaku as white on the 3rd line: 45/124 = 36%.

I guess confusing worked for him.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #12 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:48 am
 Gosei

Posts: 1964
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 1718
Was liked: 1078
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Extensions from what? Otherwise this thread (and the original statement) are nonsense.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

 This post by ez4u was liked by: Bonobo
Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #13 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:31 am
 Lives in sente

Posts: 790
Liked others: 259
Was liked: 322
OP is smart to ask why. He is following another famous proverb, "Beware following proverbs you don't fully understand."

_________________
Want to see videos of low-dan mistakes and what to learn from them? Brady's Blunders

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #14 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:15 am
 Lives in sente

Posts: 900
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 105
Was liked: 353
Rank: Bel 2d KGS 1d TG 4d
KGS: Artevelde
Tygem: Knotwilg
When extending, as with any move, ask yourself what you want to accomplish

- making a firm base, which cannot be disconnected but which might become overconcentrated?
- making a loose base, which can be disconnected but which allow you to move faster while sacrificing some stones?

This all depends on the circumstances, as the extension (from a wall) will also have a function towards the other side

It is better to think of moves this way then to follow rules like the one mentioned. They are restricting your thinking at best and misguided at worst.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Why are odd-numbered extensions the most ideal? #15 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:52 am
 Judan

Posts: 6478
Liked others: 1518
Was liked: 2414
wineandgolover wrote:
OP is smart to ask why. He is following another famous proverb, "Beware following proverbs you don't fully understand."

If I only made moves I fully understood, I would not play at all.

_________________
Don't cry for me, Sergeant Tina.

 This post by Bill Spight was liked by 3 people: Bonobo, Calvin Clark, ez4u
Top

 Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending
 Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ]

 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

#### Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
 Jump to:  Select a forum ------------------ Life In 19x19.com General Topics    Introductions and Guidelines    Off Topic    Announcements    General Go Chat    Beginners    Amateurs    Professionals       Lee Sedol vs Gu Li    Go Rules    Forum/Site Suggestions and Bugs    Creative writing    Tournaments       Ride share to tournaments Improve Your Game    Game Analysis    Study Group    Teachers/Club Leaders       Teacher advertisements    Study Journals L19²GO (Malkovich)    1-on-1 Malkovich games    Big Brother Malkovich games    Rengo Games    Other versions of turn-based games Go Gear    Go Books    Go Book Reviews    Computer Go    Gobans and other equipment    Trading Post    New Products/Upgrades/Sales Go Club Forums    Go Club Discussions       Honinbo Go League    American Go Association Forum       Go Congress 2011 volunteers       AGA volunteers ( non-congress)    Australian Go Association    European Go Federation Forum    Singapore Weiqi Association    KGS    ASR League    IGS    OGS    Tygem    WBaduk    Turn Based Servers    Insei League Events    Kaya.gs       King of the Hill